The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Within the limits of frame analysis, the whole stroke cycle is roughly 1.672 seconds, or 35.9 spm. Your drive (defined as that portion of the stroke in which you're accelerating the flywheel, as opposed to playing with your hands) is .705 seconds. The recovery (defined as the non-drive portion of the stroke) is .967 seconds. Your ratio is 1:1.37

O.K.

.7 seconds, it is.

Happy with that at max drag, 1:23 @ 36 spm.

17 SPI?

For a 60s lwt?

Ridiculously good stuff.

No, I won't even row 500m like that.

I'll blend that spectacular effectiveness with some efficiency and row well (at 13 SPI), raising the rate to 46 spm.

That's 1:23, too.

My distance stroke is another matter altogether, though.

It is _all_ efficiency, keeping just enough effectiveness (11.7 SPI) to keep the pace high, given the conservation of energy.

ranger

[mikvan52]

.... just post what you ARE ACTUALLY DOING. I assume you're actually rowing most days right?

Come now, aharmer, Bats erg under cover of darkness!
Thereby obscuring the screen so we cannot deduce pace and time elapsed all at once

... the essence of ranger's hold on all of us/// no resolution of any question from here on out.

I ask for the umpteenth time: "Has ranger ever posted a lightweight performance over 2k?"
I looked in the rankings in years past and don't remember finding anything of the sort...

What happened with the 2010 "hard sharpening"?... The same thing that will happen with 2010 "distance trials"...

The soap opera continues... I'm not complaining!

[mikvan52]

"and now for something entirely different"

Rich speaks of:

I'll blend that spectacular effectiveness with some efficiency and row well

To me this sounds like a lead-in to a special effects clip....




or could Rich just be "eff"ing with us?

Time always tells.
Stay tuned: a 1:24 500m by a 59+ year-old is coming right up... as a long-term goal

Confused? I sure am!

There's that same old Google[Bot] again!
hyper-link to: non-performance art

[Bob S.]

Your marathon, as noted in your signature, is at 2k+12.4 seconds, which is certainly a Freed'esque sustaining of speed.

That you are +12.4 for a marathon, yet +10.5 for HM and +5.5 for only 6k, shows you must have much more capability for the latter two events.

As you carry your speed quite well fom the 2k to the marathon, it is strange that you doubt that this can be done.

You have got to be kidding.

I have similar stats this season:

HM @ 2K +10.3
60 @ +9.7
10K @ +5.3
30 @ +7.0
6K @ +3.9
5K @ +2.4

Is it a matter of "carrying speed" well? I don't know what the hell that is supposed to mean, so I couldn't say. What I do say is that the stats show that my 2K base is crap - along with the two lousy timed pieces, 30' and 60'.

Bob S.

[hjs]

.... just post what you ARE ACTUALLY DOING. I assume you're actually rowing most days right?

The season is over, he has 10 months where he has no races that will show his results, the more traffic in this thread the more he can post


THE SIMPLE HARD COLD FACTS ARE THISE:

again slower this year, although he was the best trained ever, did evrything he wanted to do, even his weight was ok

[lancs]

17 SPI?

For a 60s lwt?

Ridiculously good stuff.

But fairly average for a 59 yr old hwt.

I've lost track a bit, are we expecting any groundbreaking rows in the next week or two? Wasn't there something about a 17k hour or something? Tell you what. $100 to your account if you can post a shot of a 8500m 30mins within the next two weeks. That's *half* the distance of what you think you can do for the hour so obviously straightforward for you..

[ranger]

Here's my FM stroke.

11.7 SPI

Relaxing stuff.

Huge ratio.

Quick little drive.

Big recovery.

A little work.

Then lots of rest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6wF4tsGNYw

ranger

[mrfit]

Ranger Ranking Distance Countdown:
38 Days

[hjs]

Here's my FM stroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6wF4tsGNYw

ranger

A fm is not 1 min though

And why are pulling your arms in at the beginning of the drive, no need for that, keep the arms relax, must be that the stroke is still not ready yet

And finally you look a bit more riped although you are right, there is some fat left, Mike's is still leaner, you can loose a few extra pounds without losing muscle. So stay away from the cookie jar

[NavigationHazard]

Here's my FM stroke. 11.7 SPI. Relaxing stuff. Huge ratio. Quick little drive. Big recovery. A little work. Then lots of rest.
ranger

Catch, or at least the start of handle traverse. You've got some slack in the chain, which will add half a hundredth of a second or so to your catch slip as it needs to come taut:



Actual ratchet engagement will be maybe .02-.025 seconds after your hands start moving. Finish, or at least end of purposeful handle traverse:



And next stroke catch, or at least the start of handle traverse:



Catch as above is at 25.559 seconds, finish at 26.360, end of recovery at 28.028. Within the limits of this frame analysis, that makes your stroke cycle 2.469 seconds long (24.3 spm). Of that your drive is .801 seconds. That's hardly quick, and only 60% longer than you thought your "distance-stroke drive" [sic] might be. Your recovery is 1.668 seconds. Your drive:recovery ratio thus is 1:2.1.

Inasmuch as ratio tends to shrink as rate goes up, the odds that you are at 1:3 at 30 spm with a stroke like this remain roughly zero.

Edit: Forgot to add. It's not how far your center of mass moves that determines drive length. It's handle movement. You may think you're shortening the drive distance by only coming partway back to full compression at the catch. But that only works if you also shorten the distance the handle moves. More importantly, why on earth are your shortening slide traverse? Quite apart from robbing your leg drive of leverage, if you do that in a boat you'll keep your weight towards bow all the time. You want to get out of bow, letting the boat run under you so the front end of your boat isn't angled down into the water.

[snowleopard]

--snip --
Quite apart from robbing your leg drive of leverage, if you do that in a boat you'll keep your weight towards bow all the time.

The whole thing is just a mess. Big and ugly lick at the handle. Head all over the place. Etc. His 1x must resemble a dolphin at play

It's like the standing ab' wheel thing. No perception of what is really going on.

[ranger]

Why on earth are your shortening slide traverse?

Well, I suppose the explanation for the technique is that my HR rides at about 150 bpm when I do what I am doing in the video, down from 172 bpm in 2003.

I would say that's a pretty big improvement in effectiveness and efficiency.

150 bpm is just over top-end UT2.

UT2 for me is 145 bpm.

I can row a FM at 150 bpm.

My FM pb is 1:54, which I pulled back in 2003.

So, the improvement is six seconds per 500m.

Better yet, I can lift the rate with this stroke, keeping the drive constant at 11.7 SPI and the ratio constant at 2-to-1, all the way up to 32 spm, with very little stress.

My anaerobic threshold is around 170 bpm.

When I am fully trained up for it, I can row for 60min at my anaerobic threshold.

The 60s lwt WR for a FM is 2:00 pace.

1:48 is Rob Slocum's long-standing 50s _heavyweight_ FM WR.

So the stroke seems pretty good to me.

Mike VB doesn't row FMs.

At the moment, he probably rows 60min at 1:52, the 60s lwt WR for an hour row.

Rocket Roy rowed his FM pb, 1:56 @ 26 spm, that is, with a _wildly_ ineffective stroke, albeit at 10 MPS.

I am rowing right at my 2K stroking power.

So this is great distance training for the 2K.

When I get fully warmed up (which I wasn't in the video), I usually settle into 27-29 spm in my distance training.

If I slack off, my rate falls to 26 spm, if I push it, I get to 30 spm.

At 11.7 SPI, this is _great_ distance training for a 60s lightweight.

ranger

[ranger]

Quite apart from robbing your leg drive of leverage

Obviously, I don't need any more leverage with my legs.

Using more leg leverage is costly.

Using less leg leverage is more efficient.

I am pulling 11.5 SPI.

I have no reason to pull 13 SPI for a FM, just to lower the rate.

Especially for a little lightweight like me, 24 spm is _very_ comfortable as a FM rate.

Rocket Roy pulled his FM pb at 8.5 SPI.

What sort of leg leverage is _that_?

As I mentioned, for 2Ks and sprints, I'll roll up onto my toes at the catch and use a full slide.

This lengthens and strengthens the drive even further.

If I roll up on my toes at the catch and use a full slide, I pretty naturally pull 13 SPI, but of course, the effort is greater and the ratio drops.

No need to do that for a FM.

For a FM, you want to put a premium on efficiency, not effectiveness.

ranger

[macroth]

I think ranger has it all figured out. Why bother rowing a full distance when you can just row a few strokes, match them up with a distance in your head, and calculate your time? Pure genius!

I'll do this today at the gym. I'm supposed to be resting, but it should only take me half an hour or so to determine my new PB's for the 500m, 2K, 5K, 6K, 30', 60', HM and FM.

[ranger]

I think ranger has it all figured out. Why bother rowing a full distance when you can just row a few strokes, match them up with a distance in your head, and calculate your time? Pure genius!

I'll do this today at the gym. I'm supposed to be resting, but it should only take me half an hour or so to determine my new PB's for the 500m, 2K, 5K, 6K, 30', 60', HM and FM.

When you are training, it is no virtue to row slowly and badly over some long distance just to find out how slow and bad you are.

The purpose of training is to try to get faster and better.

You get faster and better by training yourself to row well, not by rowing badly, over and over, over and over, to see what time you get.

ranger