The Two Types of Training

[johnlvs2run]

I dare anyone to find someone no matter what sport who has results in the line of this Freed, it is simply impossible to have results this close together. Every human being simply does have a anaerobic system, you simply need that to survive.

I already posted that my sustaining of my speed over distance is the same that Freed obtained.

My top speed is not as high, but then I am 20 pounds lighter and probably don't have the same leverage.

Sustaining of speed is common in running.

Rowing is far from as advanced, especially on the erg.

[johnlvs2run]

Have you ever heard of a very well trained endurance athlete with a resting puls of 60/65 ?

Jim Ryun had a resting pulse of 70+ at the time he ran a WR for the mile.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read. ... 271&page=0

A friend of mine who ran 5 marathons and won many age group races had a resting pulse of 90.

This morning I found a survey where 24 of 200 triathletes reported a resting pulse of 61 or higher.

[whp4]

Have you ever heard of a very well trained endurance athlete with a resting puls of 60/65 ?

While I count myself among the Freed doubters (no independent witnesses to any of these fabulous rows?) this particular fact isn't one of the reasons why. Good old Joop Zoetemelk (TdF winner 1980, 6 time TdF 2nd place, 16 completed TdF rides (the record), 1985 World RR champion (at age 38!)) had a resting HR in that range.

[becz]

News flash: they give the medal to the rower who finishes first, not the one with the best watts/kilogram of body weight ratio.

Well 2k + 12.6 seconds for an hour is not impressive to me, as I could do that easily in my sleep.

If that's the best rower in the planet then the best rower on the planet sucks.

John - You're completely misinterpreting the data. 2k + 12.6 holds for someone who is an elite, highly trained athlete, i.e. has a very fast 2k time. For example, if Graham Benton can do a 5:4x 2k (~1:25 pace), this means that his average pace for an hour will be ~1:38. The reason this doesn't hold for you is because your 2k (unfortunately) sucks.

And I don't see your point about running being different in this regard. The 2k world record is 4:44.79 (1:11/500m pace), whereas the 20k record is around 55:48 minutes (1:23.7/500m pace). Wow, look at that! 2k + 12.7. How strange.

[NavigationHazard]

News flash: they give the medal to the rower who finishes first, not the one with the best watts/kilogram of body weight ratio.

Well 2k + 12.6 seconds for an hour is not impressive to me, as I could do that easily in my sleep.

If that's the best rower in the planet then the best rower on the planet sucks.

Stand that on its head and you get "60' - 6 seconds for a 2k is not impressive for Graham Benton, as he probably can do right around 3 of those consecutively at 1:33 pace.

[whp4]

News flash: they give the medal to the rower who finishes first, not the one with the best watts/kilogram of body weight ratio.

Well 2k + 12.6 seconds for an hour is not impressive to me, as I could do that easily in my sleep.

If that's the best rower in the planet then the best rower on the planet sucks.

John, your comparison would be much more impressive if your 2k PB was not just a handful of seconds faster than what other 50-59 lwt WOMEN were doing that year Your 2009 results of 14442 for the hour were done at 2k + 7, which does seem to support your claim that you maintain your "speed" well until we see that that "speed" was a blistering 7:50.4 for 2k and both results were at best unimpressive when compared to your 60-63 yo peers.

[hjs]

Have you ever heard of a very well trained endurance athlete with a resting puls of 60/65 ?

While I count myself among the Freed doubters (no independent witnesses to any of these fabulous rows?) this particular fact isn't one of the reasons why. Good old Joop Zoetemelk (TdF winner 1980, 6 time TdF 2nd place, 16 completed TdF rides (the record), 1985 World RR champion (at age 38!)) had a resting HR in that range.

Where do you have this from? I can,t find anything on the net google ing.

Zoetemelk is dutch like me, I know quit a bit about him, he was an anti sprinter but a good time trial, even in the proloogs
I now nothing about his hartrate though.

[ranger]

I have rowed a couple of million meters OTW since this video.

Helpful tip: sitting in the bathtub, splashing the water around with your hands while going "whoosh, whoosh" is not rowing OTW

True.

But for lightweights who have worked hard at their OTW rowing over a number of years, I would guess that erg scores correlate highly with OTW times.

For instance, if a 60-year-old lightweight pulled 6:16 on the erg and had been working hard on their OTW rowing for five years or so, I think this might have a significant bearing on their OTW performance, given that the 60s lwt WR on the erg is 6:42.

Don't you?

Many big heavyweights pull much better erg scores than OTW scores, but that's just because they are big and heavy and erg times don't penalize them for this, as OTW does.

For instance, the weight adjustment between Nav and me is about 40 seconds.

The age adjustment is about 10 seconds.

So Nav's 6:26 this year, adjusted for age and weight, is equal to something like 7:16 for me.

If I row 6:16 for 2K on the erg, adjusted for age and weight, the row is about a minute better over 2K than if Nav pulled 6:16.

In a 5k, between Nav and me, the age and weight adjustment becomes two and a half minutes.

ranger

[hjs]

Have you ever heard of a very well trained endurance athlete with a resting puls of 60/65 ?

Jim Ryun had a resting pulse of 70+ at the time he ran a WR for the mile.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read. ... 271&page=0

A friend of mine who ran 5 marathons and won many age group races had a resting pulse of 90.

This morning I found a survey where 24 of 200 triathletes reported a resting pulse of 61 or higher.

I found this on your link John.

A resting pulse of 90 ? sorry John but I know you for some time and take it that you are simple lying. Just taking your word is not something I do

[johnlvs2run]

I don't see your point about running being different in this regard. The 2k world record is 4:44.79 (1:11/500m pace), whereas the 20k record is around 55:48 minutes (1:23.7/500m pace). Wow, look at that! 2k + 12.7. How strange.

2k record: El G

20k record: Gebrselassie, Tadesse, Wanjuri.

El G cannot keep up with them over distance. This is exactly my point.

If you want to compare sustainability between sports then look to cycling and swimming and compare those to rowing.

My point is that the fastest over 2k cannot hold a candle to people like Freed, or myself.

[johnlvs2run]

[For example, if Graham Benton can do a 5:4x 2k (~1:25 pace), this means that his average pace for an hour will be ~1:38. The reason this doesn't hold for you is because your 2k (unfortunately) sucks.

No, this is because 2k + 13 is not impressive for an hour, and is certainly nothing outstanding.

[whp4]

But for lightweights who have worked hard at their OTW rowing over a number of years, I would guess that erg scores correlate highly with OTW times.

For instance, if a 60-year-old lightweight pulled 6:16 on the erg and had been working hard on their OTW rowing for five years or so, I think this might have a significant bearing on their OTW performance, given that the 60s lwt WR on the erg is 6:42.

For someone who has worked hard on their OTW rowing, getting proper coaching to have a decent OTW stroke, and who uses that same stroke on the erg, there might be some correlation. None of these factors apply to you. You also aren't a 60-year-old lightweight, haven't pulled 6:16 for 2k, and never will. The erg is forgiving of technical faults, which is the only reason why anyone here has ever heard of you. The boat is not.

[johnlvs2run]

A resting pulse of 90 ? sorry John but I know you for some time and take it that you are simple lying. Just taking your word is not something I do

I know for a fact about my friend as I personally checked the heart rate many times.

And many people know about Ryun and others.

I posted a link and knew about that even when I was in high school.

It is nothing unusual, and just shows your ignorance that you think the occurance is a lie.

[whp4]

[For example, if Graham Benton can do a 5:4x 2k (~1:25 pace), this means that his average pace for an hour will be ~1:38. The reason this doesn't hold for you is because your 2k (unfortunately) sucks.

No, this is because 2k + 13 is not impressive for an hour, and is certainly nothing outstanding.

John, the only way this logic works is if your 2k or hour is also impressive. "Uniformly slow at distances both long and short" is hardly boasting material!

[NavigationHazard]

One more time. Graham Benton has rowed farther for 1 hour on an erg than anyone else on planet Earth. Maybe on planet Rupp, which appears to be near Uranus, that sucks. On the third rock from the sun he is the definition of what is possible for the piece.

Next time I chat him I'll be sure to tell him you think he sucks. I imagine he's more concerned about Andy Triggs-Hodge and Karsten Brodowski and Pavel Shurmei, though. Also Rocky-Rambo cat, whose opinions seem to carry much weight in the Tideway boathouse.