Watts again

Rendog · Post by **Rendog** » March 23rd, 2006, 9:58 am

Listen guys I appreciate all the formulas but unfortunately I suck at math. So let me just tell you what I did today. I rowed 5000 meters in 20:32:9, with s/m of 25 and an average watt of 187. I try to keep my 500 meter split as close to 2:00 as I can. Today my 500M split was 2:03, so I have yet to achieve my goal of a 5000 meter row at a 2:00 per 500 meter. It would appear to me that I must try to get my watts higher. I rowed four 500 meter pieces with one minute rest in between, the average watts was about 205 for each 500 meter piece. What i want to know is, for a guy my size 207 pounds, 6'3, and 44 years old, what is a good watt average # that I should be attaining for a 2000 meter and a 5000 meter row? Thanks for all your help. Chris

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » March 23rd, 2006, 10:34 am

I can see why you gave up on your other thread. Hopefully John Rupp won't ruin this one.

Watts measure how much power you are producing, the more watts the faster you are going. The PM3 converts the watts to pace, so the more watts you produce the lower (or faster) your pace. In the range of paces you are rowing, around 2:00, 1 sec in pace is about 4 watts. So the main advantage of using the watts display over the pace display is that allows you to hit and set a target much more precisely.

Your row today looks pretty good. You are going to probably improve a lot over the next 6 months if you keep training, so it is hard to predict at all your upside potential. The near term goal of a sub20 5k (203 watts) and a 7:20 (263 watts) or so 2k should be attainable.

1:10 pace=1020 watts
1:15 pace=830 watts
1:20 pace= 684 watts
1:25 pace= 570 watts
1:30 pace= 480 watts
1:35 pace= 408 watts
1:40 pace= 350 watts
1:45 pace=302 watts
1:50 pace=263 watts
1:55 pace=230 watts
2:00 pace=203 watts
2:05 pace=179 watts
2:10 pace=159 watts
2:15 pace=142 watts
2:20 pace=128 watts
2:25 pace=115 watts
2:30 pace=104 watts

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » March 23rd, 2006, 11:19 am

Rendog wrote:Listen guys I appreciate all the formulas but unfortunately I suck at math. So let me just tell you what I did today. I rowed 5000 meters in 20:32:9, with s/m of 25 and an average watt of 187. I try to keep my 500 meter split as close to 2:00 as I can. Today my 500M split was 2:03, so I have yet to achieve my goal of a 5000 meter row at a 2:00 per 500 meter. It would appear to me that I must try to get my watts higher. I rowed four 500 meter pieces with one minute rest in between, the average watts was about 205 for each 500 meter piece. What i want to know is, for a guy my size 207 pounds, 6'3, and 44 years old, what is a good watt average # that I should be attaining for a 2000 meter and a 5000 meter row? Thanks for all your help. Chris

Hi Chris,

We are similar in age, height, and weight (well, I'm a bit heavier, but probably don't have any more "useful mass").

Yesterday I did 8k in 30:19.8 (1:53.7), which is my standard steady state daily session on the Erg, so it's fair to say that you will have no problem meeting and exceeding your current goals.

My suggestion would be to make sure to get technique ironed out with the DVD from C2 or the assistance of a coach in your area if possible, it will go a long way in helping toward your goal. "busting your hump" before learning technique leads to the establishing of bad habits that will limit future performance and be difficult to break later.

Rendog · Post by **Rendog** » March 23rd, 2006, 11:44 am

First Michael, thanks for your explaination, I think I have it now. That chart really helped too. Now reaching a 263 watt average for a 2000 meter row does seem to me kind of tough, but I'll try. I mean I had a hard time maintaining 235 watts for 500 meters, actually the best that I could do was 205 watts per 500 meters, but that of course was after my 5000 meter row. And Paul, I've watched that video that comes with the Concept 2 several times and I feel like i have the technique down. However i guess a litle coaching would only help. How do I find a coach?

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » March 23rd, 2006, 11:58 am

Rendog wrote:First Michael, thanks for your explaination, I think I have it now. That chart really helped too. Now reaching a 263 watt average for a 2000 meter row does seem to me kind of tough, but I'll try. I mean I had a hard time maintaining 235 watts for 500 meters, actually the best that I could do was 205 watts per 500 meters, but that of course was after my 5000 meter row. And Paul, I've watched that video that comes with the Concept 2 several times and I feel like i have the technique down. However i guess a litle coaching would only help. How do I find a coach?

Where are you located? If it is not particularly remote there is probably a rowing program within reasonable distance and any coach I've ever known would be happy to have you come by and get a bit of help. I invite new folks to come down to the Erg Fitness class that I coach whenever I am contacted by them. Our Rowing Association also has several open houses each year (about this time of year is popular) where people get an introduction to the various progams and rowing on both the C2 and in a boat.

If none of that is possible, if you have the capability to take a digital video of yourself and put it up for viewing, you will get quite a lot of feedback. Or if you want to do that a bit more privately, it's one of the services I provide (link below), and Xeno does this also.

Rendog · Post by **Rendog** » March 23rd, 2006, 12:05 pm

I live on Long Island, New York. i could easily take a video of myself and would have no problems sending it to the forum for a critique. I guess a 5 minute clip should do it. How do I go about sending the video? Thanks again, Chris

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » March 23rd, 2006, 12:18 pm

Rendog wrote:I live on Long Island, New York. i could easily take a video of myself and would have no problems sending it to the forum for a critique. I guess a 5 minute clip should do it. How do I go about sending the video? Thanks again, Chris

A 10 "stroke" clip would be enough. Just make them representative strokes, taken after you have settled into your usual pace/rate. Set up the camera at shoulder height (seated on the Erg) on a line perpendicular from the foot stretcher and far enough away that no body parts leave the frame. Good lighting and light colored clothing also help.

I think google has a service where you can upload video files and then just post the link here. There is also something called "putfile" that is similar.

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » March 23rd, 2006, 12:32 pm

The 7:20 2k may be much harder than the sub20 5k. PaulS's rule is that when you double the distance, you add 5 in pace, so a 5k would be about 6-8 secs slower in pace than the 2k (and the goals I gave have a 10 sec difference). But I was guessing both are in the ballpark for you.

The interesting thing about watts to me, and the reason I wrote that chart, was that watts lets you really appreciate how difficult it can be to go faster. So from a 2:30 pace to a 2:00 takes twice as much power, double that power again to go 1:35, double that again to go 1:15 (not that that is possible for most of us).

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:06 pm

Watts are proportional to the PACE.

Thus you can find your WATTathon scores from your PERathlon scores.

Here's how to do it:

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1251#1251

Francois · Post by **Francois** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:10 pm

michaelb wrote:The interesting thing about watts to me, and the reason I wrote that chart, was that watts lets you really appreciate how difficult it can be to go faster. So from a 2:30 pace to a 2:00 takes twice as much power, double that power again to go 1:35, double that again to go 1:15 (not that that is possible for most of us).

Another way to look at it is that doubling the watts increases the speed by 26%, or equivalently, dividing the pace by 1.26 (cubic root of 2).

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:16 pm

On the C2 erg, as the Pace goes down, the Watts go up in a proportional manner.

Thus the values for Pace and Watts are directly proportional to the other.

slalomskater · Post by **slalomskater** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:49 pm

Chris,

Keep up the regular erg workouts and you will easily achieve your goals. Just ramp up you intensity slowly over the months ahead and the erg will get you in the best shape of your life. Too much too soon and injuries will pop up.

Besides Paul's advice about form, make sure your drag setting (the little lever on the side of the flywheel sets this) is on the low side (generally around 3). This will save your back a bit from injurierag settings
s allowing you to progress without nagging setbacks.

I'm a 41yr old non-rower who took up erging about 1 1/2 years ago. Most of the people on this site are very helpful and knowledgable. However, just like all forums in cyberspace, there are some odd sorts who spend the bulk of their life ejaculating strange ideas.

Two things I've noticed after lurking and reading on this forum for 1 1/2 years.

1. Paul Smith is a pro and an excellent source of info. He usually keeps it brief and to the point.

2. John Rupp's information is flat out wrong about 98% of the time. If you are pressed for time, skip over anything with his name attached.

dgivnish · Post by **dgivnish** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:55 pm

Chris -

I'm 5'11" 210 and 47 years old. I started erging Jan 2005, and had similar times and watt ratings to what you're doing now. Coaching on your technique will give you immediate and dramatic results. Then you you might want to consider is using either the Pete Plan or the Wolverine Plan to build your cardio base. You can find plenty of information in the forum on either discipline. I've found that the low-rate (16,18,20) training where I'm trying to gradually increase my watts has helped.

I'm looking at my watts and my distance per stroke using my PM3 and RowPro on my laptop. Good luck and have fun.

Dave

Ben Rea · Post by **Ben Rea** » March 23rd, 2006, 2:05 pm

why are you even worrying about the watts?

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » March 23rd, 2006, 3:05 pm

Slalomskater,

From observing your posts the last few days, I have concluded that you are an idiot and have your head up your ass.

Please don't talk to me any more. Thanks.

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