The Two Types of Training

[ranger]

Can you give us any details of your latest DNF?.

That kinda undermined my motivation.

Understandable, no?

Undermined your motivation? For a 'modest AT' row?! Surely not. I do my modest AT rows in my garage on my own and my motivation seems ok. I think you need a reassesment of your 'modest AT' pace. 1:45 or so is probably nearer the mark.

Well, we'll soon see.

I think I'll do 1:40 for 5K, perhaps faster.

I'll have to do it at 135 df., though, and a high rate.

11 SPI @ 32 spm

ranger

[ranger]

If you do it ranger-style

You mean the flat-paced 6:41, six seconds better than any 55s lwt, even though I am 59?

And on just the basis of UT training?

Faster than anyone my age and weight has ever rowed?

With perhaps another 20 seconds or more still to get, after some good AT, TR, and AN training?

Yep.

"Ranger-style" indeed.

These are the good things that happen when you train to get better (working on your weaknesses) than than training to race (just parading your strengths).

It is (probably?) too much to wish for, but (perhaps?) you'all will get it some day.

I will continue to improve, for weeks and weeks, perhaps for months and months.

Mike VB peaked and was done in January, a month before the CRASH-Bs.

No more to be done there.

If you just train to race, but have no foundation to bring out with your sharpening, the whole enterprise is empty.

You just get worse.

ranger

[DUThomas]

UT1 for me is 87% HRR.

So, sure.

That's about what I did pulling 6:41.4

Are you now claiming your 6:41.4 was a UT1 effort? Why, a 6:38 AT effort--a WR!--should have been there for the taking. And yet, you failed. Tough break.

[NavigationHazard]

UT1 for me is 87% HRR. So, sure. That's about what I did pulling 6:41.4[.] 345 watts[.] 84% of 411 watts is 345 watts. 411 watts is right around 1:35 pace. So, in terms of watts, that 16% of a 2K on the erg that is anaerobic is worth about 20 seconds. That seems right to me. Of course, that's why no one does 2Ks, as I have been doing, without sharpening hard for them. And no one comes anyone near rowing WR pace for 2K, as I have been doing, without sharpening for it. ranger

1) Whatever your HR may have been for the row, you did not row a 6:41.4 2k using only aerobic energy pathways. All three energy pathways (aerobic, anaerobic alactic, and anaerobic lactic) will have contributed.

2) Your current anaerobic threshold (deflection point) is NOT going to be above 87% HRR. 87% of factual max HR maybe, although that's roughly what you'll find in trained international OTW rowers. 84-85% of factual max HR is more likely. Since you have not done a step test, did not measure your HR during your 6:41.4, and have no idea what your current max HR actually is -- hint: it's whatever you can push it to on an erg NOW, so maybe 178-80 bpm -- you don't really know.

[detlefchef]

If you do it ranger-style

You mean the flat-paced 6:41, six seconds better than any 55s lwt, even though I am 59?

And on just the basis of UT training?

Faster than anyone my age and weight has ever rowed?

Listen, if you want props for that, quick making up the rest of this crap and maybe we'll give you some. Right, right, it's 20 seconds slower than you can go. That's fine as well. Just quit saying, "Wednesday I'll do this, Friday I'll do that, and next week I'll break the WR". Just freaking do it or shut the hell up about it.

It's absolutely nobody's fault but your own that your accomplishments are being seen as failures.

[mikvan52]

We're coming to the end of RIchard Cureton's 55-59 lifespan. For those of us who've been "with" him for the 5 years: Man! It's been a long haul... a long, long, anchor haul !

He's always about to post something... He nearly always lets us down...

Cutting to the chase.. What have we gotten for all our attention in 5 years?

(drum roll)

(brace yourself! here it is)

as a lwt... one distance only (2k): a 6:41.0 as a best in 2009... 2.9 seconds off the World Record

nothing else

great job Rich!!! "unprecedented"

I've tried to challenge him to all kinds of contests where I have the advantage over him: 5k, 6k, 30 min, 10k, 60 min...
DURING THESE FIVE YEARS RICH HAS NOT POSTED BETTER PERFORMANCES THAN MINE...

LET ME REPEAT MYSELF:

In five years he hasn't posted a thing as a lwt.... (BESIDES 2Ks)

You've still got some time left Rich... Show us what you've got before the 60 year olds start kicking Ann Arbor butt..

BTW: The numbers below are all lwt times for my own 55-59 lwt marks...
Have at it my friend...

[ranger]

Wow.

This is interesting, given the things that Jon Bone/NavHaz has said on these threads.

We are in similar positions in our divisions, a year from going on to the next division.

But did NavHaz really end up 15 seconds off the pace, in 9th place in his division, with even 55s hwts ahead of him?

Wow.

What a blowhard!

RANKING RESULTS 2010
Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Heavyweight | Ages 50-59 | Current 2010 Season

1 Michele Marullo 51 ITA 6:11.3 RACE
2 David Gray 50 apo OT USA 6:13.1 RACE
4 Chris Ives 50 New York NY USA 6:17.2 RACE
5 Steve Krum 55 Manhattan Beach CA USA 6:18.5 IND_V
6 Stephen Oliver 51 Cambridge GBR 6:18.8 RowPro
7 Sergio Botti 50 Prosport Trento - Italy OT ITA 6:24.2 RACE
8 Marcus Harvey 50 GBR 6:24.4 RACE
9 Jã¸rgen Bloch 50 Kã¸benhavns Vestegns Politi GBR 6:24.5 RACE
11 Jonathan Bone 54 New York NY USA 6:26.2 IND
12 Sergio Botti 50 Prosport Trento - Italy ITA 6:26.7 RACE
13 Mel LaForme 57 USA 6:28.4 RACE
14 Richard Cheeseman 51 Sub 7 IRC Sub7 IRC GBR 6:29.4 IND_V
15 Nick Rockliff 52 Tadcaster Nth Yorkshire GBR 6:29.9 IND
16 Alexander Chin 53 USA 6:30.0 RACE
17 Walter Updegrave 57 New Rochelle NY USA 6:30.1 RACE
18 george perrin 57 Runcorn GBR 6:30.2 IND
19 Tore Foss 57 NOR 6:31.5 RACE
20 Joe Glickman 50 Brooklyn NY USA 6:32.1 RACE

Is Jon going to redeem himself by the end of the 2010 season and row something that justifies his big mouth?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

It is hard to see how, though, given that, like Mike VB, his CRASH-B time was much slower than his best this year, by four seconds.

Here are the results in my division so far.

I am leading by six seconds.

There are seven weeks still to go in the indoor rowing season.

I am just starting to sharpen.

So I could be as much as 20 seconds ahead in my division by the end of April.

RANKING RESULTS 2010
Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | Current 2010 Season

You are number 1 of 100
View your Ranking

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6 IND_V
3 Jonathan Rich 56 Winter Park FL USA 6:52.3 RACE
4 Eric Winterbottom 58 Bodytalk GBR 7:01.9 RACE
5 Gary Passler 55 amesbury MA USA 7:05.0 RACE
6 David Sutkowy 56 manlius NY USA 7:05.4 RACE
6 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
8 John Busk 56 Slangerup DEN 7:07.6 IND
9 Ernest Cook 55 Brookline MA USA 7:08.3 RACE
10 Daniel Devez 56 Port-Marly Rc FRA 7:08.5 RACE

Hmm.

The erg is a truth machine, no?



ranger

[mikvan52]

Rich:

Speaking of "distance rowing going well" and all that.

I thought you'd be interested in hearing that I'm doing some of my own:



(from my blog)

4 x 5k OTW(!) Steady State

Sunday!

• 1:29:32.2
• 20,004 meters
• 2:14.2 per 500m (average pace)
• 19 spm Steady State
• breaks were approx. 2-3 minutes each lap.

Perhaps you like to engage the ranger-wock machine and explain to your erger followers what this-all means in erg pace by way of one of your hilarious interpretations. Your OTW analyses always give me a big smile....
.
.

[mikvan52]

The erg is a truth machine, no?

Is this why your own personal erg machine has "taken the 5th" and remained silent to avoid incriminating evidence?



IOW: There is no question of truth or lies forthcoming from the bat-cave

[ranger]

The erg is a truth machine, no?

Is this why your own personal erg machine has "taken the 5th" and remained silent to avoid incriminating evidence?



IOW: There is no question of truth or lies forthcoming from the bat-cave

I haven't needed my machine lately.

I have been racing at venues, as you can see:

RANKING RESULTS 2010
Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 2000m | Men's | Lightweight | Custom Age Range (55–59) | Current 2010 Season

You are number 1 of 100
View your Ranking

1 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.4 RACE
2 Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6 IND_V
3 Jonathan Rich 56 Winter Park FL USA 6:52.3 RACE
4 Eric Winterbottom 58 Bodytalk GBR 7:01.9 RACE
5 Gary Passler 55 amesbury MA USA 7:05.0 RACE
6 David Sutkowy 56 manlius NY USA 7:05.4 RACE
6 Rolf Meek 59 Oslo NOR 7:05.4 IND
8 John Busk 56 Slangerup DEN 7:07.6 IND
9 Ernest Cook 55 Brookline MA USA 7:08.3 RACE
10 Daniel Devez 56 Port-Marly Rc FRA 7:08.5 RACE

Hmm.

The erg is a truth machine, no?



ranger

[ranger]

In fact, there is some possibility, I think, that I might outrow Jon in a 2K by the end of April.

The difference in standards between his age and weight division (50s hwts) and mine (55s lwts) is 8 seconds per 500m.



ranger

[mikvan52]

In fact, there is some possibility, I think, that I might....

Want to qualify this any further?

This thread of yours is becoming truly, in fact, possibly, might--y pathetic....

answer "in fact":

Are you going to BIRC?

No.

When will you attempt a 55-59 lwt 2k again...?

Never.

When will you complete hard sharpening?

Never.

When will fall silent?

Not until you die.

When will you set a WR in any 55-59 age group?

Never.

Two types of training?

There are more than two and yours has no championship results other than in 2k ergometer rankings (w/o a WR) which include athletes numbering what? less than 200? 150?
"unprecedented"!!!

[DUThomas]

In fact, there is some possibility, I think, that I might outrow Jon in a 2K by the end of April.

That's lame. As you might know, saying "some possibility" is essentially meaningless. Don't be a timid blowhard: express your chance of beating him as an exact percentage or as a range of percentages. Or go one better: challenge Jon to a race (on RowPro, in person, whatever).

[Nosmo]

The quiz is still on Ranger:

you wrote: "pace = rate x SPI"
For 10 points, rewrite the equation so it is true.

I am no longer interested in theoretical rigamarole.

It no longer has any bearing on what I am doing.

The important parts of my training are done.

Now, I am just racing.

So I am only interested in results.

I am just trying my best to row fast, given my training.

ranger

OK Ranger you failed!

So here is the answer:

speed = rate x mps
i.e. strokes per minute times meters per stroke.

or
power = rate x SPI
or
speed = cube root of (rate x SPI / 2.8)
or
pace = 1 / cube root of (rate x SPI / 2.8)

or even the obvious:
distance = time / pace
or
speed = distance / time
or ....

No that is not so hard now is it? How long have you been reading and writing on this forum?
I'd recommend learning these things so you don't look so foolish in the future.

[JohnBove]

In recent years

In recent years, I haven't been training to race.

I have been training to get better.

This is, of course, another bald lie, as can be discovered by anyone with the patience to wade through your posts wherein, year after year, post after post, you say just the opposite, blathering on about your sharpening, your imminent smashing of the WR, etc., the same mind-numbing shite you're going on about now. This seven-year fable is nothing more than a cover for a year-by-year failure to do anything remotely close to what you predict. You're such a low life.