The Two Types of Training

[snowleopard]

I also ran in and around 2:50 in the Lakefront marathon in Milwaukee in 1981, 1982, 1983, and 1984, when I lived there.

Getting erg workout results from ranger is impossible, but it seems his marathon PR matches his claim. Lakefront Marathon results:

1981: 2:59:34
1982: 2:50:05
1983: No result found
1984: 3:01:58

Yes but 2:59 and 3:01 is not, "in and around 2:50". Our hero, as ever, is incapable of telling it how it is. All part of the syndrome.

Incidentally, his current leaning towards 'group rowing' is amusing and in a way we should humor him. It's a recognition by him that he's on the outside and it might not be a bad idea to conform.

I guarantee that it won't happen though. ranger is 100% 'unclubable'.

Don't forget we dealing with an autodidact here. Trouble is, a pupil is only as good as the master, and ranger will never walk the rice paper without tearing it

[Byron Drachman]

March 1, 2010: I don't need any help with erging (my stroke is perfect), although I indeed want to be a coach, when I retire from teaching linguistics and poetics at UM in a couple of years. I am going to do sweep rowing in an eight for the Ann Arbor Rowing Club this year.

March 1, 2010: I think I can now train myself to rate 32 spm for 5K in my 1x. If I do, I'll win the HOTC when I am 60.

Let's work on our social skills to use at the AARC:

Whenever you are going to say "I am the greatest rower in the history of the sport." instead say "I'm trying to improve. What should I be working on?"

Whenever you are going to say "I did three world record rows in 2003 on the ergometer" instead say "I'm afraid I've ingrained some bad habits from too much erging. Can you suggest some drills to improve my stroke?"

Whenever you are going to say "My stroke is perfect." instead say "Can you help me fix my stroke?"

We could make a longer list but this would be a good starting point. It would be like taking a language course with a phrase on one side and the translation on the other side of an index card. Write what you were going to say on one side and the corrected version on the other side. Then, just so you don't get confused and can't tell which is the correct side to use, use a highlighter and cross out the sentence you don't want to say out loud, even though you will still be thinking it.

You could practice with three cards. Be sure to shuffle them to help master the drill. After that I am sure we could get people to volunteer to create more cards.

[ausrwr]

I don't need any help with erging (my stroke is perfect), although I indeed want to be a coach, when I retire from teaching linguistics and poetics at UM in a couple of years.

ranger

"Perfect"?! "Perfect"?!

From the videos you've posted, it looks as natural as a pigeon trying to fuck a paper aeroplane.

[ranger]

Let's...

Be yourself, Byron.

And I'll be myself.

What can I say?

No, I'm not much of a "let's..." guy.

That's you.

Thanks for clarifying that, though.

ranger

[ranger]

]"Perfect"

My stroke on the erg is entirely fixed now.

With little trouble, I get 13 SPI.

Even rowing lightly, for example, for distance rowing, I get 11.7 SPI.

That's _great_ power for a 60s lightweight, no?

What needs "fixing" if you row like that?

That's perfect.

ranger

[ranger]

I also ran in and around 2:50 in the Lakefront marathon in Milwaukee in 1981, 1982, 1983, and 1984, when I lived there.

Getting erg workout results from ranger is impossible, but it seems his marathon PR matches his claim. Lakefront Marathon results:

1981: 2:59:34
1982: 2:50:05
1983: No result found
1984: 3:01:58

Yes but 2:59 and 3:01 is not, "in and around 2:50". Our hero, as ever, is incapable of telling it how it is. All part of the syndrome.

Incidentally, his current leaning towards 'group rowing' is amusing and in a way we should humor him. It's a recognition by him that he's on the outside and it might not be a bad idea to conform.

I guarantee that it won't happen though. ranger is 100% 'unclubable'.

Don't forget we dealing with an autodidact here. Trouble is, a pupil is only as good as the master, and ranger will never walk the rice paper without tearing it

I have run about 40 marathons.

I ran 2:50 quite a few times.

Those were my best times.

But I never ran in the 2:40s.

I ran 2:50 in Milwaukee's Mayfair Marathon once, too, I think in 1979 or 1980.

And I ran 2:50 a couple of times out at Allerton Park, in Monticello, IL, in the Illini Striders Track Club marathons, stretching back to the middle 70s.

As I remember, I also ran 2:50 over in Crawfordsville, IN, a couple of times.

I think I also ran 2:50 in Chicago one year, in the late 1970s.

I ran 1:16 for a HM once.

I ran 45 minutes for 8 miles.

ranger

[ranger]

Yes but 2:59 and 3:01 is not, "in and around 2:50".

Wake up, bonehead.

2:50:05 is indeed "in and around 2:50."

So, you found one of my best runs.

Sure, I ran lots of marathons in times that _weren't_ 2:50.

So, you found some of those, too.

I just said that, when I ran my best, I ran 2:50.

I ran 2:50 quite a few times.

ranger

[ranger]

There is no point in trying to persuade you that the leg is in a stronger position to drive with the foot planted.

Strength isn't the issue, Byron.

The issue is angle of leverage, quickness, timing, and sequencing.

Yikes!

When are you going to learn to row?

The point is generating a lot of efficient dynamic power, not applying maximal strength.

Rowing isn't weight lifting.

I only have to get about 110 kgs. of peak power to pull 13 SPI.

That's _hugely_ short of max.

It's easy to tell when you are rowing well, Byron.

Rowing well is 13 SPI for lightweights; 16 SPI for heavyweights.

All the rest is just hot air.

So, do you pull 13 SPI when you row (e.g., at low rates) or not?

If not, keep working at it.

You'll get it one of these days.

But to do so, you'll have to get off your heels.

ranger

[ranger]

This week, I'll post 8 x 500m @ 1:34, 4 x 1K @ 1:37, and 4 x 2K @ 1:41.

Then, on Saturday, I'll pull a lwt 6:28 2K in Detroit.

If you post any single one of these I'll post a photo of me stood butt naked on the steps of Manchester Town Hall..

O.K.

But remember you said that.

I'll try the 500s tomorrow.

Then the 2Ks.

Then the 1Ks.

Later in the week.

ranger

[ranger]

Lordy.

The 60s lwt American record is 6:56.6.

Hmm.

I think I might pull sub-6:30 this weekend, aerobically, without even preparing for it (with hard anaerobic sharpening and distance trials).

1:38 is AT for a 6:16 2K.

ranger

[JimR]

... When are you going to learn to row? ... All of the rest is just hot air ...

I trust you are going to AARC to teach them how to row and further your coaching aspirations? They should be so lucky to have someone as knowledgeable and accomplished as your in their group ... sharing the knowledge that has made you great.

Let them know you did a 6:16 2K in Detroit if they need convincing!

JimR

[ranger]

... When are you going to learn to row? ... All of the rest is just hot air ...

I trust you are going to AARC to teach them how to row and further your coaching aspirations? They should be so lucky to have someone as knowledgeable and accomplished as your in their group ... sharing the knowledge that has made you great.

Let them know you did a 6:16 2K in Detroit if they need convincing!

JimR

My goal for Detroit is 6:28, not 6:16.

Then I will start hard sharpening and distance trials.

I probably can sharpen for a couple more months before my 2K times plateau/drop off.

A couple of months of hard sharpening should be long enough to bring out my entire training base, set a whole new set of distance pbs, and see what I can do for 2K, at my best.

I usually get a dozen seconds over 2K from a couple of months of hard sharpening.

ranger

[ranger]

... When are you going to learn to row? ... All of the rest is just hot air ...

I trust you are going to AARC to teach them how to row and further your coaching aspirations? They should be so lucky to have someone as knowledgeable and accomplished as your in their group ... sharing the knowledge that has made you great.

Let them know you did a 6:16 2K in Detroit if they need convincing!

JimR

I have already rowed for the club, in the spring and summer of 2004, after I broke the 50s lwt WR three times on the erg, pulling 6:30, 6:29, and 6:28.

Sure, the people in the club knew about these rows.

The results were splashed in the Ann Arbor papers.

Brian Tryon was the sculling coach that year.

As I remember, he tried out for the national lightweight team.

We pulled about the same for 2K on the erg.

It looks as though he has done _very_ well for himself since then.

Impressive stuff.

http://www.usrowing.org/News_Media/Athl ... tryon.aspx

ranger

[DUThomas]

The 60s lwt American record is 6:56.6.

Seems plausible enough--what's the source?

[Steve G]

Now I am going to do competition sweep rowing [in an eight].

Ooh, now there's a twist. So, you figured out the only way to beat Mike in the HoTC

Don't trust anything you hear on the internet.

You mean like your prediction of you winning the HoTC in a single aged 60?

I won't be 60 this summer.

I am only 59.

I am going to enter the HOTC in 2011, when I am 60.

Mike will still be 59 at HOTC 2011.

He won't be 60 until 2012.

In 2011, Mike will still be rowing in the Grand-Masters.

In 2011, I will be rowing in the Veterans.

ranger

Shit Rich
Just wasted my money in buying you a 60th birthday card, you kept saying you will be 60 in a few days time. I thought I may have missed the momentous day.
Oh Well