The Two Types of Training

hjs · Post by **hjs** » February 24th, 2010, 4:43 am

mikvan52 wrote:R.Cureton seems to fit the profile of a midweight who trains down for a few hours of here-and-there lighweight-dom...

What did Sir Pirate used to call it? Oh, yeah... "Glory Weight"

My guess is that if you had to weigh-in before a lightweight hour on the erg: your blood would coagulate in your veins due to dehydration....

Have you ever logged a lwt hour?.... If so, what was it in meters?

he is lightweight Mike, but he simply has an eating disorder, if he could eat like you he could have raced a lot better and more, at least 50% of his racing went down the crapper due to dehydration.
Last weekend he finally lost enough fat to be able to stay in normal hydration mode. The result was clear, he could perform on his max.

No doubt he will stuff himslef soon again

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 24th, 2010, 4:46 am

PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote: Mike VB doesn't seem to be racing, either.

Why not?

I would guess because there is no point.
Why would you bother to guess - Mike's already told us he's switched to OTW rowing. There are no formal OTW races at this time of year (at least that I know of that would be accessible to Mike), hence he's not racing. No guess needed.

If Mike could get more out of his 2K on the erg, I am sure that it would be both useful and exciting for him to do so.

At it turn out, Mike's 2K on the erg stopped improving a month ago.

Sure, so why not go back to OTW rowing?

Nothing more to be done with the erg, given how Mike trains.

By and large, on the erg, Mike just trains to race, and that's that.

This can be done pretty quickly, and with little trouble.

As he mentions, it only takes 39 minutes a day, rowing at an average pace of over 2:00 per 500m.

If you can wait a couple of months, you'll see the difference between the results of training of that sort (i.e., just training to race) and the training I have being doing (several years of foundational, UT, work, working exclusively on my weaknesses, which I am just now tapping into for racing).

These are the results so far this year:

Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.3
Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6

In a couple of weeks, I will have my 2K sub-6:30.

Then I wilil be ready for two months of distance trials and hard sharpening in order to get the last three seconds per 500 that is available in my training base.

When I do, at the end of April, my 2K will be a half a minute faster than Mike's.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 24th, 2010, 4:55 am

hjs wrote:he is lightweight Mike

Not only that:

Mike is _bigger_ than I am, both taller and with a higher non-fat body mass.

At 8% body fat, I would be 157 lbs.

I am getting there, but it has taken a while.

I might be there by the end of April, when I go back out OTW.

I am about 11% body fat right now.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 24th, 2010, 5:17 am

This is interesting:

As far as I can tell (correct me if I am wrong), all of the standard training plans for indoor rowing just develop your fitness and get you ready to race, no matter how you row.

None of them have anything to do with teaching you to row well, either effectively or efficiently.

ranger

hjs · Post by **hjs** » February 24th, 2010, 5:22 am

ranger wrote:
hjs wrote:he is lightweight Mike
Not only that:

Mike is _bigger_ than I am, both taller and with a higher non-fat body mass.

At 8% body fat, I would be 157 lbs.

I am getting there, but it has taken a while.

I might be there by the end of April, when I go back out OTW.

I am about 11% body fat right now.

ranger

So in fact you are saying that you are not able to control yourself, Mike is bigger but he is hole year round a lightweight. If he can do it, it should be easy for you, but every year you get really fat again.
You could not get below the limit in time, that gave Mike 2 hammers in a row................

To gain 10 kg you have to overeat around 90.000/100.000 kcal, that is a hole lotte food

Maybe you should see a docter for this, you obviously have a big eating disorder, I think even Navhaz doesn,t eat as poor as you

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » February 24th, 2010, 5:38 am

ranger wrote: These are the results so far this year:

Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.3
Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6

You missed out the bit where Mike achieved his target of being the World Champion, whereas you still haven't achieved your target. The season isn't over, of course, but so far Mike leads 1-0.

Now, back to your guessing something that you knew not to be true. Why did you do that?

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 24th, 2010, 6:01 am

Okay.

So things are boiling down to this:

1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS) is rowing well (i.e., both effectively and efficiently) for a lightweight.

So if you want to be a great lightweight, in trainiing, just row well for most of your meters.

Row 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS)--and that's that.

Beyond that, what you can achieve in rowing depends on (1) the intensity and extensiveness of your training and (2) your talent for the sport, i.e., aerobic capacity, strength, flexibility, etc.

So.

Given current standards (WRs, etc.),

if you can row well for 60min, you are the best Open lightweight rower in the world;

if you can row well for 10K, you are the best Masters lightweight in the world;

if you can row well for 30min, you are the best Senior lightweight in the world;

if you can row well for 5K, you are the best Veteran lightweight in the world;

And if you can row well for 2K, you are the best 60s lwt in the world.

I pretty much did the last of these at Cleveland.

Now that I row well, the goal for the next two months is to try to work up this ladder of achievement, perhaps, right to tthe top!

For most of my training, I just need to rate 30 spm, row well, and try to do it for longer and longer distances.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 24th, 2010, 6:12 am

PaulH wrote:
ranger wrote: These are the results so far this year:

Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.3
Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6
You missed out the bit where Mike achieved his target of being the World Champion, whereas you still haven't achieved your target. The season isn't over, of course, but so far Mike leads 1-0.

Now, back to your guessing something that you knew not to be true. Why did you do that?

My target is rowing 10:00 for 2K.

Easy.

Done.

It is no virtue to set low standards and then achieve them.

Stupid stuff.

This is just self-indulgence, flattery.

Given that Mike is the best OTW rower in the 55s division, both lightweight and heavyweight, his only proper goal is to be the best lightweight erger, too.

For that, I suspect he would have to pull at least 6:30, given that the 50s lwt WR is 6:25, and the normal decline with age is about a second a year over 2K.

He didn't.

So he didn't come anywhere near his proper goal.

He missed it by five seconds per 500m.

Wretched stuff.

ranger

PaulH · Post by **PaulH** » February 24th, 2010, 6:19 am

ranger wrote:It is no virtue to set low standards and then achieve them.
...
Given that Mike is the best OTW rower in the 55s division, his only proper goal is to be the best erger, too.

Well, assuming he's that interested in erging then I guess that's true. I wonder how he could do that? Perhaps by winning the World Championships? Yeah, that would make sense - oh and look, he did, and you didn't.

Anyway, you were making 'guesses' about things you already knew the answer to - would you like to justify that?

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » February 24th, 2010, 6:20 am

I don't want something to get lost in the shuffle here,,, especially if some are only playing with half a deck...

R.Cureton is a kick-ass 2k erg-puller, even if he's inconsistent...

No one should try to take that away from him....

AS FOR "two types of training"....
I love to hear all the fakery about 6:28 and 6:16 and FM at 1:4x/500 pace.
I don't expect to ever see his 60 yr old 17,000 m 60' performance AT ANY WEIGHT.
I'd put money on it too (if the bed-wetters out there would let me).

This thread is way cool.

Rich: May we please have another "is done at" hypothetical list please?
No performances, please! Absolutely NONE... They'd inject reality into cyberspace... ~ a stake in the heart of the vampire, so to speak...

Vampires get Oscars; regular folks just eat hot dogs

Isn't that right, Rich?

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » February 24th, 2010, 6:38 am

ranger wrote:
Given that Mike is the best OTW rower in the 55s division, both lightweight and heavyweight, his only proper goal is to be the best lightweight erger, too.

Too much talk about me, Rich.

Can we hear and learn more about you?

How about those 5ks leading up to the C2 team selection for the EIRC in the fall of 2007? Remember? We all did them... We all were going to share theme on the forum.... Remember?
You tell us what happened...

I'll just sit back and listen... It's story time!

Great coaches like Larry Gluckman, Linda Muri, Pete Marston... (the list goes on) require overdistance tests for their athletes who want to improve their 2k times....

What were yours again?

My 5k seemed to have been better than yours... That's why you didn't post. (pride goeth before "the fall"

)

Oh, I forgot! according to you 5k is not important to a rower.....

Unless he/she wants to compete OTW at the Head Race distance.... And you are waiting... until... until {?)... UNTIL (!) to do that...

{baffling} to say the least...

JimR · Post by **JimR** » February 24th, 2010, 7:09 am

ranger wrote:This is interesting:

As far as I can tell (correct me if I am wrong), all of the standard training plans for indoor rowing just develop your fitness and get you ready to race, no matter how you row.

None of them have anything to do with teaching you to row well, either effectively or efficiently.

ranger

You would be wrong ... I would explain why but you are far too entreched in your delusion to make that effort worthwhile.

JimR

JimR · Post by **JimR** » February 24th, 2010, 7:15 am

mikvan52 wrote:Too much talk about me, Rich.

Can we hear and learn more about you?

I was actually thinking back to last year where every question about the 2K was dismissed with the explaination that you have to work from long distance down. So (as the story went) first a pb in the marathon, which would indicate it would be time to do the half-marathon pb ... and so on down to the 2K.

This season we have the opposite response ... the 2K has to be the focus and everything else should wait.

More flip-flops than most I know ...

JimR

DUThomas · Post by **DUThomas** » February 24th, 2010, 8:06 am

ranger wrote:
1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS) is rowing well (i.e., both effectively and efficiently) for a lightweight.

So if you want to be a great lightweight, in trainiing, just row well for most of your meters.

Since when is 11.7 SPI rowing well for a lightweight? 13 SPI is rowing well for a lightweight. You need to step it up.

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » February 24th, 2010, 8:56 am

mikvan52 wrote: before "the fall" ... OTW at the Head Race distance.... And you are waiting... until... until {?)... UNTIL (!) ...

Rich: I get a little misty-eyed reminiscing bout you, me, the fall.

Tried to find a youtube and a nice glass of red wine..

All I could come up with are the lyrics:

Van Morrison
When The Leaves Come Falling Down lyrics
Send "When The Leaves Come Falling Down" Ringtone to your Cell

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/v/van_ ... _down.html