The Two Types of Training

[detlefchef]

Needless to say, fast as all hell.

Of course, there's the old adage; promise short, deliver long.

I used to work for this guy who was always telling us all these cool things he was going to do for us. Thing is, it's not like he wasn't paying us enough and had to keep stringing us along with dangling carrots. And, in fact, he was a pretty generous guy. Quick to buy a round if we were all out, that sort of thing. He even almost and sometimes made good on all the fanciful promises. However, you could never shake the fact that he wasn't making good on what he said he was going to do.

And that was really a shame because he was a good guy to work for and certainly among the more generous employers I've ever had. Over time, as we sort of became friends, I told him that he was undermining his own generosity by always coming up short of his needlessly generous claims. That if nobody had any expectations of these things, the cool things he was doing would be so much more appreciated.

This whole "I'm going to row 6:16" business reminds me of that. It's not like rowing is a brand new sport, so the fact that the age group WR is nowhere near that probably means something. And the fact that dude just rolled what is likely among the 5-10 fastest times ever for a guy in his age group is nothing short of impressive and should be commended. Were it not, of course, for the fact that he insists that this time is somewhere between 12 and 25 seconds slower than he's capable of and is such a douche about it.

So congrats ranger. Congrats for such an impressive row and congrats for making it seem like a complete failure.

[jliddil]

so now we see that Two Types of training fails can we end this thread, already?

[Bob S.]

Therefore Rich's 6:41.4 is superior to any previous 55-59 times, but not to Brian Bailey's 60+ WR of 6:42.5.

John
There are no records for 59 year olds, the record is for 55-59, what next weight/height adjustment?
Steve

In any case, a loss of only 4/10 of a second from his last year's best is indeed impressive. He should have a good shot at the 60+ record next year. I ignore his postings, except for occasional quotes in the responses, but today's result stands as a good one regardless of whatever claims he has been making. I suspect that a lot of his posts are just leg-pulling. He knows what buttons to push to get a rise out of a lot of forumites, especially in the U.K. a while back.

Bob S.

[JimR]

I have a man-crush on Rich

Excuse me ... I think I wet myself

JimR

[johnlvs2run]

I have a man-crush on Rich

That is so sweet of you Tommy.

Maybe you can give him a big kiss the next time you see him.

[johnlvs2run]

In any case, a loss of only 4/10 of a second from his last year's best is indeed impressive. He should have a good shot at the 60+ record next year. I ignore his postings, except for occasional quotes in the responses, but today's result stands as a good one regardless of whatever claims he has been making. I suspect that a lot of his posts are just leg-pulling. He knows what buttons to push to get a rise out of a lot of forumites, especially in the U.K. a while back.

Bob S.

Agreed.

[ranger]

Therefore Rich's 6:41.4 is superior to any previous 55-59 times, but not to Brian Bailey's 60+ WR of 6:42.5.

John
There are no records for 59 year olds, the record is for 55-59, what next weight/height adjustment?
Steve

In any case, a loss of only 4/10 of a second from his last year's best is indeed impressive. He should have a good shot at the 60+ record next year. I ignore his postings, except for occasional quotes in the responses, but today's result stands as a good one regardless of whatever claims he has been making. I suspect that a lot of his posts are just leg-pulling. He knows what buttons to push to get a rise out of a lot of forumites, especially in the U.K. a while back.

Bob S.

I haven't even done distance trials or started to sharpen hard, Bob.

Now that I am (finally!) sharpening every day, in additioin to doing some hard distance rowing, if even just mildly, my 2K is coming down by leaps and bounds.

I have two more regattas.

This week, with just a little speed training, I dropped my 2K time over seven seconds.

I think I'll get the same kind of improvement next week--and then the next.

It appears that it will take me until Detroit to do a strong AT 2K--where I get a good racing start, hold my technique in the middle of race, rating 31 spm, and then get a good kick at the end.

When I do that, I'll be sub-6:30.

Then I will be ready for hard sharpening.

In hard sharpening, I will do 500s, 1:31 @ 38 spm, and lift my 2K rate to 36 spm.

I suspect that, after Detroit, I will only get a couple of seconds a week over 2K, but perhaps for another couple of months, until I am fully trained.

In training, I still don't have my HR up much over my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm).

I need to see my maxHR over the next couple of weeks if I am going to pull sub-6:30.

I just rowed flat splits today.

Pretty wimpy.

I _thought_ I was going to have enough left for a big kick, but I was a sissy and didn't have the will to do it.

Oh well.

Chicago is next.

Then Detroit.

Lots of 500s and 1Ks, 1:36 @ 32 spm, over the next two weeks.

Then I will have that kick at the end of the 2K and that relaxation in the middle of the 2K that will let me take full advantage of my increased stroking power.

Stroke felt great today, but only up to the limits of my heart rate.

As I force my heart rate up higher and higher, my racing stroke will get stronger and stronger.

In a TR 2K, when I am fully trained, I will now pull 12.5 SPI.

I think I have a chance to get to 6:24 by Detroit, two weeks from now, but that is probably the outer limit before the official racing season ends for me.

If I do indeed pull even 6:24, it will be _ridiculous_.

The best 60s lwt row at WIRC is 6:50.8.

I will be 60 in a few days--and therefore, for WIRC 2011.

ranger

[detlefchef]

John
There are no records for 59 year olds, the record is for 55-59, what next weight/height adjustment?
Steve

In any case, a loss of only 4/10 of a second from his last year's best is indeed impressive. He should have a good shot at the 60+ record next year. I ignore his postings, except for occasional quotes in the responses, but today's result stands as a good one regardless of whatever claims he has been making. I suspect that a lot of his posts are just leg-pulling. He knows what buttons to push to get a rise out of a lot of forumites, especially in the U.K. a while back.

Bob S.

This week, with just a little speed training, I dropped my 2K time over seven seconds.

I think I'll get the same kind of improvement next week--and then the next.

Couldn't you chalk that up to the fact that your 6:48 was an "easy" effort? So, going from easy to an honest effort bought you 7 seconds. Sounds very reasonable. Wouldn't it seem that the next 7 might be a bit tougher?

[ranger]

Congrats for such an impressive row and congrats for making it seem like a complete failure.

I'm just tellin' it like it is.

I still haven't even gotten to a solid AT row.

So, sure, it is disappointing.

I thought I might be a little further along.

Appears not.

Oh well.

Back to those hard 60min rows--and then 500s.

I am still 25 seconds away from my best 2K, athough I think I'll get 15 of those seconds over the next two weeks.

ranger

[ranger]

1 Paul Siebach 51 Oakton VA USA 6:31.7 RACE
2 Brian O'Neill 50 Barton Athletic Club GBR 6:38.7 RACE
3 Rich Cureton 59 Ann Arbor MI USA 6:41.3 IND
4 Steven Geary 52 Bluff South Island NZL 6:42.1 RACE
5 . HAMMACHI 51 LE PERREUX S/M FRA 6:45.7 IND
6 Michael van Beuren 57 Hartland VT USA 6:47.6 IND_V
7 David Hosking 54 London GBR 6:47.8 IND
8 Paul Wenham 54 Holbeck GBR 6:51.4 RACE
9 David Hislop 53 Castle Kennedy GBR 6:52.0 RACE
10 Jonathan Rich 56 Winter Park FL USA 6:52.3 RACE

Next week, in Chicago, I'll catch O'Neill.

Then the week after, in Detroit, I'll catch Siebach.

Then I'll keep sharpening and racing on the erg for two months, until the weather is nice and I can get out OTW.

That should bring out my base entirely.

It will be interesting to see where my 2K ends up.

ranger

[snowleopard]

I am still 25 seconds away from my best 2K, athough I think I'll get 15 of those seconds over the next two weeks.

Er, you gain 12 -- twelve -- seconds from sharpening. Every one does, no? You have been sharpening since the beginning of Jan, no?

Where, pray, is 25 seconds going to come from? You need to find another 74 watts.

[JimR]

Next week, in Chicago, I'll catch O'Neill.

You said that when you collect the purse for pulling a WR in Chicago you will pay Henry the $1000 you owe him from the bet you lost last year.

If that doesn't happen (because you over estimated your abilities again) will you make Henry wait another year before he gets paid?

JimR

[ranger]

Couldn't you chalk that up to the fact that your 6:48 was an "easy" effort?

So you believe me now, but you didn't before?

Yikes.

What next?

_All_ of these 2Ks are relatively easy until I get my heart rate up to speed.

Today, my body felt fine but my lungs were _wrecked_.

Why?

I just haven't done much speed work yet.

Even so, I didn't fall off the erg at the end.

I just got up and walked away.

You haven't rowed a hard 2K is you can do that.

I suspect that I am not yet using much of my anaerobic capacity at all.

Your anaerobic capacity is 20% of your best 2K.

For me, that comes out to be about 7.5 seconds per 500m.

20% of 420 watts is 84 watts, the difference between 1:34 and 1:41.5

ranger

[ranger]

Wouldn't it seem that the next 7 might be a bit tougher?

Nope.

Not until I just pull through a 2K strongly and steadily at 31 spm, using my full stroking power, with a good racing start and a good kick over the last 300m.

My guess is that, until I do this, my 2K will continue to come down in leaps and bounds.

Why?

Because the difference from week to week in my 2K is just a matter of getting my HR up to max.

This has nothing to do with aerobic capacity, stroking power, technique, endurance, strength, overall fitness, and all of the other things that are an essential part of rowing a quality 2K.

You can get your HR up to max very quickly, in just a few weeks.

It takes _years_ to build a big base.

Maximal sharpening also takes some time, quite a bit more time than it takes to just get your HR up.

To row your best 2K, you need to get used to rowing at high rates at your maxHR for a maximal distance.

Yep.

You need to get used to...

PAIN



ranger

[Rocket Roy]

Roy Brook has the 55-59 record at 6:38.1 from 2006.
I don't know what Roy's age was at the time.

However there's a 7.7 second difference from age 55 to 59 based on WR age times.

Therefore Rich's 6:41.4 is superior to any previous 55-59 times, but not to Brian Bailey's 60+ WR of 6:42.5.

Bullshit, wanna fight?