The Two Types of Training

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » February 17th, 2010, 7:57 pm

leadville wrote:If our hero races this weekend, his results will likely be on par with, if not worse than, his last witnessed effort. And they will not improve over the next few weeks. I'm betting he doesn't race this weekend or any more this season; he's just getting slower and slower due to his ignorant training regime.

Our hero shot his wad, and it didn't dent a rice paper screen.

I'm not so sure. Last year he got faster as the races went on. If he ccontinues to loose a bit of weight, making lightweight will get easier and easier so he may turn in a good time. He already demonstrated he can do a 6:48 (probably as a hwt), faster the MVB at crash-B's but slower then MVBs severely negative split trial run last month, so he doesn't have fastest 2K time this year.
I think he has a 6:43 in him by the end of the season and given that there are a number of races left he is likely to get it in one of the races.

BrianStaff · Post by **BrianStaff** » February 17th, 2010, 9:15 pm

ranger wrote: Just butt out, Byron.

It's none of your damn business.

You're one of the biggest assholes I have ever encountered.

Just find a hole and crawl in it, where you belong.

ranger

I just hope that someone punches you on the nose. You really are a low-life.

BrianStaff · Post by **BrianStaff** » February 17th, 2010, 9:17 pm

ranger wrote: No, the airlines did.

I had no control over the airlines.

I was standing at O'Hare International for six hours, trying to get a plane to Boston.

There weren't any.

If you look back, you weren't even in Chicago - so that's a lie

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » February 17th, 2010, 10:18 pm

BrianStaff wrote:
ranger wrote: No, the airlines did.

I had no control over the airlines.

I was standing at O'Hare International for six hours, trying to get a plane to Boston.

There weren't any.

If you look back, you weren't even in Chicago - so that's a lie

Monseineur Staff:

Clearly, we all fail to appreciate the significance of ranger-speak.

Utterances like the one above are clearly poetic fragments similar to the great ones from antiquity. There are gaps, but the bare bones of a greater truth rears its head like an iceberg or, perhaps a Rosetta Stone of ergometer training: We can all learn from ranger once we realize the idiomatic significance of what seem at first to be obtuse scribblings or merely falsehoods.

Later on we will grasp the gifts of what he is patiently imparting to us here.

All things (will become clear) with study!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone

Idiomatic use
The term Rosetta Stone came to be used by philologists to describe any bilingual text with whose help a hitherto unknown language and/or script could be deciphered. ….
Later on, the term gained a wider frequency, also outside the field of linguistics, and has become idiomatic as something that is a critical key to the process of decryption or translation of a difficult encoding of information...

TomR · Post by **TomR** » February 18th, 2010, 12:39 am

It's instructive to see you jumping on Byron, a totally decent guy. You again reveal yourself for the nasty fly speck that you are.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » February 18th, 2010, 1:07 am

"Oho!' said the pot to the kettle;
"You are dirty and ugly and black!
Surely no one would think you were metal,
Except when you're given a crack."

"Not so! not so! kettle said to the pot;
"'Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean -without blemish or blot-
That your blackness is mirrored in me"

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 2:42 am

BrianStaff wrote:
ranger wrote: No, the airlines did.

I had no control over the airlines.

I was standing at O'Hare International for six hours, trying to get a plane to Boston.

There weren't any.

If you look back, you weren't even in Chicago - so that's a lie

Yes, I was in Chicago, on my way from Louisville to Boston. I made it the first leg, but my plane was late getting to Chicago from Louisville, because of a two-hour delay due to the pelting snow in Louisville. This made me miss my plane in Chicago, the last plane to Boston that day. The airline put me up in a hotel in downtown Chicago for the night with a voucher, along with scores of other people.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 2:43 am

BrianStaff wrote:
ranger wrote: No, the airlines did.

I had no control over the airlines.

I was standing at O'Hare International for six hours, trying to get a plane to Boston.

There weren't any.

If you look back, you weren't even in Chicago - so that's a lie

Yes, I was in Chicago, on my way from Louisville to Boston. I made it the first leg, but my plane was late getting to Chicago from Louisville, because of a two-hour delay due to the pelting snow in Louisville. This made me miss my plane in Chicago, the last plane to Boston that day. The airline put me up in a hotel in downtown Chicago for the night with a voucher, along with scores of other people.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 2:45 am

nosmo wrote:I think he has a 6:43 in him by the end of the season

The 6:48 was just a UT1 training row, not even 5K pace.

Tomorrow, I will push it to 5k pace (AT) and row sub-6:40 2K--at home.

If I can get to 8 x 500 (3:30 rest), 1:34 @ 36 spm, by Sunday, as I think I might, that predicts 6:28 for Cleveland.

If I can pull 6:24 in Chicago, things will _really_ start to get interesting.

6:24 is Hendershott's 60s hwt WR and below the 50s lwt WR.

I will have overcome the 18-second gap (6:24 vs. 6:42) between lightweight and heavyweight standards among 60s rowers.

What I get to this winter indoor rowing season (i.e., in 2.5 weeks) is irrelevant.

When this season ends in a couple of weeks, I will just keep sharpening with 500s and 1Ks, along with distance rowing as warm ups, as I am doing now.

I will row an at-home 2K time trial every week to mark my progress, and keep doing this until my 2K times plateau.

I will also go on to establish new pbs in all of the distance rows (FM, HM, 60min, 10K, 30min, 6K, 5K), this time, rowing as a lightweight, and enter my times in the lightweight rankings.

That will bring out my base entirely.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 2:55 am

aharmer wrote:Rich, I have a challenge for you. You want to do a lot of race pace pieces the next few days, and claim to be posting screenshots of these pieces along the way.

I consider myself to be in about 6:40 shape right now which seems very relative to the situation at hand. Yesterday I did a 6x500m, 1'r. Averaged 1:37.7 and 32 spm.

This workout would seem to fit what you are going to be doing the next few days, why not knock this one out and try to best my average over the 3000m? I don't want to wager on the outcome, only ask that you post a screenshot regardless of outcome. I would be very curious to see how each of us do this workout versus our outcomes this weekend.

What you can do in a sharpening workout or a 2K can change momentarily by huge margins.

So such a comparison doesn't mean much at all at any given moment.

These things just indicate where you are in your training.

A better comparison would be between training bases.

What do you do for 60min @ 10 MPS (or a FM? or 5K?)?

That is, what do you row at UT2, UT1, and AT?

Forget TR and AN.

You can get fully sharpened up in a few weeks, whenever you would like.

You just need to do a few sprints.

It takes _years_ to build a solid base.

Your UT scores represent your effectiveness and efficiency, and your AT scores give an indication of how much concerted work you have done rowing at your anaerobic threshold.

Those are the important things.

Your effectiveness and efficiency, together with your threshold rowing, represents your potential for 2K when you are fully trained, rather than just where you are right now, this moment, in your training.

Can you row 17K, or over, for 60min?

I think I can.

I'll try it one of these days, when I get a chance.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 3:09 am

leadville wrote:A common symptom of overtraining is an inability to get the heart rate up close to maximal levels. This is likely what's affecting our hero.

IF accurately reported, our hero's workouts are far too intense, there is inadequate rest, and there is far too much emphasis on high HR work when the research indicates a large volume of relatively low intensity training delivers far better results.

No, just the opposite.

That's why people do hard distance rowing and sharpening to prepare for a 2K--to get their HR up.

As I have mentioned repeatedly, I get about a dozen seconds each over 2K from hard distance rowing and sharpening.

Why?

You bring up your anaerobic capacities, which are 20% of your performance in a 2K.

This only takes a few weeks to do, though.

It takes nothing like the concerted effort it takes to build a maximal base, which I have now done.

If your base indicates you are capable of a 6:16 2K (420 watts), as mine now does, 20% of that is 84 watts, the difference between a 1:41.5 2K and a 1:34 2K, 7.5 seconds per 500m.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 3:11 am

Have you read the latest _Rowing News_?

As Mike Spracklin rightly claims, for those who know what they are doing, there is no such thing as overtraining.

You can never work too hard.

You just have to do the right kind of work.

I have a half a century of experience with the issue.

I have never overtrained since I took up rowing a decade ago.

Never have, and never will.

I have never been seriously stale, ill, injured, or discouraged, even though I have rowed about 100 milliion meters.

On this rowing forum, all of these things end games (illness, staleness, injury, discouragement) are _rampant_, though.

Why?

Everyone does the wrong kind of work.

They ignore their base and just sharpen--all the time.

In fact, things like the CTC encourage racing--every week--all year round.

Nothing could be more destructive, dangerous, and unproductive.

Complete foolishness.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 3:18 am

John Rupp wrote:"Oho!' said the pot to the kettle;
"You are dirty and ugly and black!
Surely no one would think you were metal,
Except when you're given a crack."

"Not so! not so! kettle said to the pot;
"'Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean -without blemish or blot-
That your blackness is mirrored in me"

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 3:21 am

Your 2K is only as good as what you can do for 60min @ 10 MPS.

The 60s lwt WR for 60min is 1:52/16K.

60min is done at 2K + 10.

So in a 2K, that's about it at the moment for most 60s lwt rowers who train in traditional ways:

1:52 - 10

1:42/6:48

Mike VB.

Rocket Roy.

Etc.

If you can do 60min @ 1:44, though, that's another matter.

1:44 - 10 = 1:34

Hi-yo, Silver, away!

The Lone Ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 18th, 2010, 3:36 am

MIke and Roy can barely row 2K at 1:44.

1:44 is TR, not UT1.

They miss it by two trainiing bands.

rnger