Concept2 and lower back pain

[markwill12]

I experienced a back injury (L4/5 disc collapsed) last year, which pretty much stopped me in my tracks with respect to the events/workouts I planned. I like to cycle (road bikes) and run. The former is OK for me now but I have pretty much accepted that running is a thing of the past for me, given the jarring motion.

However, I am interested in getting back into rowing on a regular basis. I have had a Concept2 since 2002 and used to use it a great deal (at least my meagre standards). For example, I used to enjoy the 200,000 holiday challenges, which was enough for me but fun.

I need to be more proactive with building and maintaining my core muscles. Just two days ago I had a minor relapse with the back, merely by bending over to pick something up. I have already cancelled my first bike event due to this but know I need to be more disciplined in building and maintaining my core muscles.

Here's my big question. DONE RIGHT (correct stroke mechanics), will a Concept2 help or am I risking further injury? I am somewhat "left brained", meaning I like to set myself challenges and go after them. But if I have to take it very easy initially and just focus on gentle sessions using the right stroke then maybe this can help.

I'd be interested in whether the Concept2 is helpful for me.

Thanks.

Mark

[johnlvs2run]

Here's my big question. DONE RIGHT (correct stroke mechanics), will a Concept2 help or am I risking further injury?

Done right, the rowing machine should be helpful.

Done wrong, it could further injure your back.

You would hopefully be aware of this, by feel and consideration of the motion.

[Carl Watts]

I rolled a car in the early 90's and put up with the resulting lower back pain for 18months before seeking treatment.

The results of rowing seem to depend on the specific injury, for example I can row with no problem but I cannot Kayak as it causes severe lower back pain.

I suggest if you have not done so already then find a rower you can use for 5 minutes and it will tell you straight away if it's going to work for you or not.

In terms of a cardio and a full body workout at zero impact the Concept 2 indoor rower is the way to go with a great online community as well.

[markwill12]

I suggest if you have not done so already then find a rower you can use for 5 minutes and it will tell you straight away if it's going to work for you or not.

Thanks Carl (and to you, too, John). Access to the Concept2 is the easy bit As above, I've had one for eight years and I think I have about 1.3 million meters under my belt. But with last years back issues it's been a while since I have been on it. Then it suddenly struck me that, with the corrrect stroke, it could actually help rather than hinder my recovery and core strength in particular. I am going to give my back a few more days rest after my recent "tweak" (Sunday) and ease gently onto my rower and see how things work out.

Thanks.

Mark

[Byron Drachman]

Hi Mark,
A friend of mine also has an L4/5 problem, as well as some disc problems higher up. The Concept2 has helped his back but he tells me that he needs to use slides and use some restraint, i.e. be careful not to overdo it. My own experience is that slides are easier on the lower back. I hope you find something that works for you.
Byron

[johnlvs2run]

I agree with Byron.

Slides are very nice, and are highly recommended.

[Cyclist2]

I also have lower back pain, but with daily stretching (hamstrings, mostly), a great chiropractor, and core exercises, I manage to feel good most of the time. When I start using the erg seriously in the fall, I do about a full month with no straps on my feet. That forces me to sit up straight and eases the pressure on the back. Once I get some erging fitness back, I start doing shorter workouts with straps but ALWAYS do a good warmup and cool down strapless.

I'd love to try slides some day.

Take it easy, and have fun!

[kipkeino68]

This product may be helpful to you. http://www.shoxbox.biz/Home_Page.html

I tried it yesterday at the CRASH-Bs. It felt good.

[Snail Space]

Another long-term back sufferer until I discovered the ergo. I would second the suggestions about using slides, although they do cost a few $. I have recently started rowing without my feet strapped in, which has made my core much stronger as it lessens the chance of you using poor technique.

I avoid short, intense sessions - preferring to concentrate on longer, low-intensity, aerobic workouts because they are less likely to jar the back (and because they hurt less ).

You might consider investing in a swiss ball (aka physio or exercise ball) to help with core strength development. There are some great technique videos on YouTube. It is worth spending at least 30 minutes per core session, and to do them at least daily. A medicine ball or some dumbells can be useful accesories to use with the ball.

Cheers,
Dave.

[johnlvs2run]

This product may be helpful to you. http://www.shoxbox.biz/Home_Page.html

I tried it yesterday at the CRASH-Bs. It felt good.

Or brace up the front legs with 2x4's, even better.

The real issue in regards to position of the erg, is that the railing dips sharply in relation to the line of force from the fan.
Imagine if the railing kept it's current dip, and the fan cage would be 12 inches higher--yikes!

The railing on the modelB was nearly level, and the distance from the plane of the railing to the line of force from the fan was much less.

This is one of the reason that taller rowers, especially those with longer torsos, arms, and relatively short legs,
have a huge mechanical advantage on the erg--because they are higher up above the line of force from the fan.
And this is not adjustable, as it would be in a boat, based on the torso height of the rower.

There is further explanation of this here:
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=103874#103874

A hypothetical modelJ, with more equitable line of force:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/jo ... odelJc.jpg

[twok]

There is further explanation of this here

I don't see any explanation, merely your contested opinion.

[Greypuller]

This product may be helpful to you. http://www.shoxbox.biz/Home_Page.html

I tried it yesterday at the CRASH-Bs. It felt good.

Or brace up the front legs with 2x4's, even better.

The real issue in regards to position of the erg, is that the railing dips sharply in relation to the line of force from the fan.
Imagine if the railing kept it's current dip, and the fan cage would be 12 inches higher--yikes!

The railing on the modelB was nearly level, and the distance from the plane of the railing to the line of force from the fan was much less.

This is one of the reason that taller rowers, especially those with longer torsos, arms, and relatively short legs,
have a huge mechanical advantage on the erg--because they are higher up above the line of force from the fan.
And this is not adjustable, as it would be in a boat, based on the torso height of the rower.

There is further explanation of this here:
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=103874#103874

A hypothetical modelJ, with more equitable line of force:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/jo ... odelJc.jpg

Can you explain what you are saying here? Are you saying that it's better to place a 2x4 under the front leg than a shoxbox on the rear leg? Just trying to understand the system as it relates to reducing the strain on the lower back? Thanks.

[johnlvs2run]

Can you explain what you are saying here? Are you saying that it's better to place a 2x4 under the front leg than a shoxbox on the rear leg? Just trying to understand the system as it relates to reducing the strain on the lower back? Thanks.

What I'm saying is that the issue is caused by the design of the erg, in particular the breadth between the line of the railing and the axle.
Lifting the front, or lifting the back, makes no difference to the angle, which is the source of the issue.

This could be resolved somewhat by raising the front of the railing, and keeping the axle the same it is now,
so the railing would be level, which would reduce angle between the railing and the axle.
The front part of the railing would need to be raised, so the railing is level, however this causes a disconnect in the middle.
This can not be done by simply raising the front feet of the erg, as that would also raise the axle.

The best solution that I see production-wise is to level the railing, and to make height of the axle (line of force) adjustable, as is usually done in boats.
Individually, if the front of the railing could be fixed to a level position, and the fan cage independently lowered, this would work.
I did try to adjust the current middle connection a few years ago, which worked, but not satisfactory.

[kipkeino68]

Here is the explanation from the website.

http://www.shoxbox.biz/uploads/An_Asses ... achine.pdf

[Nosmo]

This product may be helpful to you. http://www.shoxbox.biz/Home_Page.html

I tried it yesterday at the CRASH-Bs. It felt good.

Or brace up the front legs with 2x4's, even better.

The real issue in regards to position of the erg, is that the railing dips sharply in relation to the line of force from the fan.
Imagine if the railing kept it's current dip, and the fan cage would be 12 inches higher--yikes!
......

This design would fundamentally change the direction of force applied at the handle. C2 would never do it because it would be too dissimilar to the on the water rowing stroke.

The line of force is along the chain. It is a physical impossibility for any flexible object to transmit force in any other direction--it has to be in tension.

Don't know if having the axle at rail level would be easier on your back or not (although I could easily see how it might encourage one to slouch), but this has nothing to do with the concept behind the shoxbox.