The Two Types of Training

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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kini62
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Post by kini62 » February 17th, 2010, 1:20 am

ranger wrote:
John Rupp wrote:Yes, Rich, because they are efficient.
No, John, because they are young, have a high aerobic capacity, and therefore can do a 2K at 44 spm.

I can't.

ranger
You claim to have the aerobic and anaerobic capacity as good as or superior to any LTW rower in the world since you are claiming that you can set an open LTW WR.

Using the erg is not rocket science. Unlike OTW rowing there is little technique involved. You just plop your ass on the seat and pull the handle as hard as you can for 2K.

Surprising it took you 60 million meters to figure out "how to row". Seems you teach a chimp to do it in say 60K.

And as for having "6 WRs" by setting 3. Your math is once again off since TTBOMR you currently hold NO WRs. They have all been surpassed while you were learning to row.

Gene

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Post by KevJGK » February 17th, 2010, 4:12 am

ranger wrote:
KevJGK wrote:
ranger wrote:You don't think my final result was good last year?
Not really.

With your athletic history and claimed training regime why wouldn't you get that result?

I am more surprised at your inability to pace yourself than anything else.
My 6:41.0 last year was .2 seconds from the 55s lwt American record, even though I was 58 and was only doing foundational rowing to train for it.

Yea, I guess that's lousy.
Nobody likes a bighead.

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Kevin
Age: 57 - Weight: 187 lbs - Height: 5'10"
500m 01:33.5 Jun 2010 - 2K 06:59.5 Nov 2009 - 5K 19:08.4 Jan 2011

ranger
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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 4:39 am

kini62 wrote:
ranger wrote:
John Rupp wrote:Yes, Rich, because they are efficient.
No, John, because they are young, have a high aerobic capacity, and therefore can do a 2K at 44 spm.

I can't.

ranger
You claim to have the aerobic and anaerobic capacity as good as or superior to any LTW rower in the world since you are claiming that you can set an open LTW WR.

Using the erg is not rocket science. Unlike OTW rowing there is little technique involved. You just plop your ass on the seat and pull the handle as hard as you can for 2K.

Surprising it took you 60 million meters to figure out "how to row". Seems you teach a chimp to do it in say 60K.

And as for having "6 WRs" by setting 3. Your math is once again off since TTBOMR you currently hold NO WRs. They have all been surpassed while you were learning to row.

Gene
Well, as I said, words don't have anything to with it anymore.

I am now locked into target race pace and rate and am just doin' it, doin' it.

As far as I can tell, it is just a matter of time before I do it for 2K.

My stroking power is now 11.7-12.4 SPI at race pace, 1:34, 34 spm with a stiff stroke, 36 spm for a lighter stroke.

All of this is perfect.

The immediate goal, over the next three weeks, is 20 x 500m (paddle a 500m inbetween), just getting used to relaxing with the cadence.

20 x 500m is done at 2K pace.

Race pace and rate are already _very_ smooth and relaxed.

I am not sure whether I'll do it for 2K by the end of this racing season at a race venue, but if I don't, I'll just keep on sharpening until I do (at home).

I am now honing in on my final goal.

Nice feeling.

If I pull 6:16, there will be no words that can deny the importance of technique in erging.

This 6:16 will a dozen seconds better than my WR rows seven years ago, when I was in just the same physical shape and seven years younger.

The competitive swing in times, given these facts, is about 6 seconds per 500m.

6:16 is 24 seconds under the 60s lwt WR of 6:42.

In a 2K, at the same rate, even the best 60s lwts pull 9.5 SPI, as much as three watts per stroke less, as much as 100 watts in all.

The best 60s lwts row at WIRC so far is 6:50.8, over 8 seconds per 500m slower than 6:16.

Other than my two second improvement back in 2003 when I set the WR at WIRC and then bettered it twice, the last time at BIRC the same year, no male WR-holder 40-70 has ever gotten any better at all. They have just gotten (precipitously) worse.

A 12 second improvement in a 2K seven years later by a former WR-holder, then, would be astonishing.

At 60 years old, I would break the 40s lwt WR.

Nothing like that has ever happened in this sport.

So, let's see what happens.

Then we can just stop the speculation and contemplate the facts.

What we "think" will be irrelevant.

Nature will have spoken.

At 37 years old, Eskild E., the greatest lightweight rower in the history of the sport, both on the erg and OTW, the former Open lwt WR-holder, the present 30's lwt WR-holder, and the present 30s lwt hammer, is now pulling 6:16.

Honestly, from all the indications I am getting, I think I am going to do it, too.

In a few days, I will be 60 years old.

The task for this weekend is to approach 6:30 and put the 55s lwt WR out of reach of everyone rowing right now.

Then, next week, I will take aim at the 50s lwt WR of 6:25.

Then in my last regatta in Detroit on March 6th, I will take aim at the 40s lwt WR.

I am stably at weight and feel great.

No injuries, no sickness, no staleness.

High spirits.

I am just getting better and better.

My base indicates, again and again, that I am indeed capable of all this.

I am doing UT2 rowing at 1:49, UT1 rowing at 1:44, AT rowing at 1:39, etc., right on my targets.

At race pace, I am pulling 12.5 SPI, very close to 10 MPS, a near optimal combination of effectiveness and efficiency for a lightweight.

I just need to sharpen up and bring out the potential of this base and I will reach all of my goals.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 17th, 2010, 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 5:15 am

The best Rocket Roy got to last year in his sharpening was 8 x 500m @ 1:37.

Over the next three weeks, if I can get to 20 x 500m @ 1:34, it suggests a 2K seven seconds per 500m faster.

8 x 500m is done at 2K - 4.

20 x 500m is done at 2K.

Rocket Roy did 2K at 1:41/6:44 last year.

Seven seconds per 500m faster than that is 1:34/6:16.

So the task is set.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 5:30 am

Hey, Henry.

I will send you the $1000 I owe you from the prize money I will win from the Chicago organizers when I break the 55s lwt WR this weekend in Cleveland.

I won't receive the money until March, though.

Of course, given that I am sending you the $1000 for the part of the bet that I lost last year, if I reach one of my targets this year, you will owe me a full $3000 in return.

As it looks now, I think I will reach _all_ of my targets, not just one, or a few.

Wish me luck!

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 5:58 am

My goal for this weekend in Cleveland is just to pull a steady 32 spm.

Nothing fancy.

If I just stroke naturally and make it to the end, the time should be 6:30, give or take.

Between now and then, a lot of 500s, 1:34 @ 34-36 spm will be good preparation.

I am now getting a lot of nice lung burn from my sessions.

Today, I saw 175 bpm on the heart rate monitor.

By Sunday, I need to see 185 bpm.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by snowleopard » February 17th, 2010, 6:03 am

ranger wrote:On Wednesday [Feb 17], it will be 6:40--and an American record.

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hjs
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Post by hjs » February 17th, 2010, 6:06 am

ranger wrote:Hey, Henry.

I will send you the $1000 I owe you from the prize money I will win from the Chicago organizers when I break the 55s lwt WR this weekend in Cleveland.

I won't receive the money until March, though.

Of course, given that I am sending you the $1000 for the part of the bet that I lost last year, if I reach one of my targets this year, you will owe me a full $3000 in return.

As it looks now, I think I will reach _all_ of my targets, not just one, or a few.

Wish me luck!

ranger
The bet was clear Rich.

Last was year was about that 1000$, if you rowed any of your stated goals, I would have lost and you had won the double amount, If you broke a lightweight 6.40 but stayed above your own 2k goal it was a breakeven.
That was the 6.16/6.40 zone

The result was close but also clear 6.41, so I won, you owe me that 1000 $, Chicago has nothing to do with it.............

See: http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9742&start=0


The other bet was not a bet, but more a promise from my side and it was not about this year, but I gave you the change to row any of your stated goals in your profile, at any point in your life, the ones pointing to a 6.16 2k.

No time restictions.
clear proof of your weight status.
and clear proof of the row.

So the situation is clear, you owe me that 1000 dollar, but after you have settled that bet, you can win that back 3 fold.


Good luck with your row, the WR is possible for you, but it is also still far from your goals. Those are without a doubt unreachable. And not only for you but for every man your size and age.


So if you choose to pay your debt PM me.

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Post by PaulH » February 17th, 2010, 6:16 am

ranger wrote:If I just stroke naturally and make it to the end
Why would you not make it to the end? Your racing is entirely predictable, so short of somebody tackling you and pushing you off the erg you'll do what you say.

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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 6:22 am

NB

Even if I just pull 6:30 this weekend in Cleveland, well short of a pb, this will be in the range of 10 seconds better than the time that would have been expected if I had just trained and raced in traditional ways for the last seven years.

I suspect that this row will only be a solid AT effort, too.

I have not yet gotten my HR entirely up to speed, and I will certainly feel this limitation when I race.

I am not yet fully ready for a max effort.

I will be much better in Chicago, after another week of hard sharpening.

Then I will be even better yet in Detroit, after a another week of hard sharpening.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 17th, 2010, 6:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 6:27 am

hjs wrote:
ranger wrote:Hey, Henry.

I will send you the $1000 I owe you from the prize money I will win from the Chicago organizers when I break the 55s lwt WR this weekend in Cleveland.

I won't receive the money until March, though.

Of course, given that I am sending you the $1000 for the part of the bet that I lost last year, if I reach one of my targets this year, you will owe me a full $3000 in return.

As it looks now, I think I will reach _all_ of my targets, not just one, or a few.

Wish me luck!

ranger
The bet was clear Rich.

Last was year was about that 1000$, if you rowed any of your stated goals, I would have lost and you had won the double amount, If you broke a lightweight 6.40 but stayed above your own 2k goal it was a breakeven.
That was the 6.16/6.40 zone

The result was close but also clear 6.41, so I won, you owe me that 1000 $, Chicago has nothing to do with it.............

See: http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9742&start=0


The other bet was not a bet, but more a promise from my side and it was not about this year, but I gave you the change to row any of your stated goals in your profile, at any point in your life, the ones pointing to a 6.16 2k.

No time restictions.
clear proof of your weight status.
and clear proof of the row.

So the situation is clear, you owe me that 1000 dollar, but after you have settled that bet, you can win that back 3 fold.


Good luck with your row, the WR is possible for you, but it is also still far from your goals. Those are without a doubt unreachable. And not only for you but for every man your size and age.


So if you choose to pay your debt PM me.
Yes, exactly.

I just prefer to pay you the bet I lost last year with my rowing winnings from this year, so that my wife doesn't kill me.

:lol: :lol:

Marriages are cooperative ventures, you know.

Given that I have been married for 35 years, I would hate to end a good thing on a rowing bet.

:oops: :oops:

Males.

What good are they?

:lol: :lol:

It is amazing that good women put up with us.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by KevJGK » February 17th, 2010, 6:37 am

ranger wrote:.........so that my wife doesn't kill me......
WTF has it got to do with her?
Kevin
Age: 57 - Weight: 187 lbs - Height: 5'10"
500m 01:33.5 Jun 2010 - 2K 06:59.5 Nov 2009 - 5K 19:08.4 Jan 2011

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hjs
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Post by hjs » February 17th, 2010, 6:43 am

ranger wrote:
Yes, exactly.

I just prefer to pay you the bet I lost last year with my rowing winnings from this year, so that my wife doesn't kill me.

:lol: :lol:

Marriages are cooperative ventures, you know.

Given that I have been married for 35 years, I would hate to end a good thing on a rowing bet.

:oops: :oops:

Males.

What good are they?

:lol: :lol:

It is amazing that good women put up with us.

ranger

I would say, if you can,t affort to loose the money, no matter what reason then don,t bet at all .........

ranger
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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 7:20 am

I will wnat to do a steady at-home, AT 2K on Friday at 31 spm, to see how that comes out.

If I can row it through, I should be under Rocket Roy's 55s lwt WR.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 17th, 2010, 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Post by ranger » February 17th, 2010, 7:21 am

hjs wrote:
ranger wrote:
Yes, exactly.

I just prefer to pay you the bet I lost last year with my rowing winnings from this year, so that my wife doesn't kill me.

:lol: :lol:

Marriages are cooperative ventures, you know.

Given that I have been married for 35 years, I would hate to end a good thing on a rowing bet.

:oops: :oops:

Males.

What good are they?

:lol: :lol:

It is amazing that good women put up with us.

ranger

I would say, if you can,t affort to loose the money, no matter what reason then don,t bet at all .........
Who said I couldn't afford it?

No skin off mine.

I'll win the money from Chicago and give to you.

Then I will get it back three-fold.

I am sure than $3000 is nothing to you.

So no harm done.

If I row 6:30 this weekend, in principle, you really lose the first bet, too.

So you are the one that looks silly, not me.

When you lose your $3000, you'll look even sillier.

I must say.

Nay-sayer are f..kin' idiots.

In the end, they all pay the price for their needless ill-will and stupidity.

Time to wise up.

Surprising things happen all the time.

Anyone who thinks they don't has their head up their ass.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 17th, 2010, 9:08 am, edited 7 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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