The Two Types of Training

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Locked
ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 4:02 am

BrianStaff wrote:If at any time during the race, you find that you are not winning, I strongly suggest you just put the handle down, get off the erg and just go home - you are not mentally capable of handling the outcome.
If I am fully trained, I don't handle down.

Like everyone else, I just slow down a bit and take a breather for a while.

Then I return to my target pace.

I handle down when I am dehydrated from being too heavy and therefore from having to lose a lot of water to make weight or when my heart doesn't respond because I am not fully trained for a 2K.

I have never handled down rowing as a heavyweight.

My times rowing as a heavyweight are 6:27.5, 6:28.5, 6:29.6, and 6:37.

The faster times are from later in a racing season, the slower times from later in a racing season.

I haven't been fully trained to race since 2003.

I have been trying to get better (while everyone else parallel to me has gotten _much_ worse, 15-20 seconds worse).

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 4:34 am

Here's a first workout level 2K this morning.

I got the rate pretty much just right, 31 spm.

I was a just a little light on the stroking (10.6 SPI).

Pace was pretty even, too.

I'll need to relax and lengthen out a bit to do my best, but if I do, so that I pull my natural stroking power for racing, 12 SPI, I'll pull these right at my target for 4 x 2K, 1:38.

Nothhing maximal here, just a workout level 2K, and the fist one of the year.

And no anaerobic capacities yet whatsoever.

So, happy with this.

I can do scores of these 2Ks in practice before March 7th.

It would be nice to get to Zatopek-length workouts with 2Ks of this sort.

Image

I'll see if I can get one done in 6:32, 1:38 @ 31 spm, here at home before Cleveland on Sunday.

That's as fast as I have ever done a 2K at home.

Doing 500s on alternate days will start to bring up my anaerobic capacities.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 20th, 2010, 8:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 10076
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Post by hjs » February 15th, 2010, 4:43 am

ranger wrote:
Image

I'll see if I can get one done in 6:32, 1:38 @ 31 spm, here at home before Cleveland on Sunday.

That's as fast as I have ever done a 2K at home.

ranger

So the day after Boston you choose to do a time trial :lol:

Fully fed and hydrated no doubt :wink: So a heavy time, this weekend you will need to starve and dehydrate yourself again :roll:

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 4:53 am

hjs wrote:
ranger wrote:
Image

I'll see if I can get one done in 6:32, 1:38 @ 31 spm, here at home before Cleveland on Sunday.

That's as fast as I have ever done a 2K at home.

ranger

So the day after Boston you choose to do a time trial :lol:

Fully fed and hydrated no doubt :wink: So a heavy time, this weekend you will need to starve and dehydrate yourself again :roll:
No trial, Henry.

Just a workout-level 2K, and before I have even done any AT rowing, much less TR and AN.

I'll try to get up to 10 of these in a session, "Zatopek 2Ks."

This is Level 2 rowing.

I'll also do 3Ks, 4Ks, and 5Ks at 1:42 (and faster), but perhaps a little later, when I have some anaerobic capacities to work with.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 10076
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Post by hjs » February 15th, 2010, 5:04 am

ranger wrote:
No trial, Henry.

This is Level 2 rowing.

ranger

OK maybe 99.999% from you max hahahahah but this is it, it does show though that you should row as a heavy, 75 kg is just to low for you have proven that 6 years in a row now.
The rest you are talking about is 100% nonsens, I have never met one who so seldom does tell the truth :lol:
So you are at least very good at something.

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 5:04 am

I'll indeed try at at-home 2K trial this week, perhaps on Friday.

I'll shoot for 6:32.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 10076
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Post by hjs » February 15th, 2010, 5:25 am

ranger wrote:I'll indeed try at at-home 2K trial this week, perhaps on Friday.

I'll shoot for 6:32.

ranger

Now you are talking to me :wink:

when are you gonna pay your lost bet to me ?

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 5:36 am

The ideal for these 2Ks at this point in my training is to relax a bit, get more length at both the catch and finish, and do 12 SPI, 1:40 @ 29 spm.

I'll try to do that tomorrow.

I also need to track my HR.

I didn't today.

My guess is that I am not even over my anaerobic threshold.

Mid-160s bpm, at most.

That's what Mike VB's heart beats when he pulls 1:42 for 2K, too.

But for him, that is maxHR.

For me, that is high UT1, but not even max UT1 yet.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 5:41 am

hjs wrote:I have never met one who so seldom does tell the truth
The erg is a truth machine, Henry.

I have three WR rows on the erg.

I'll have another this weekend.

And the next weekend.

And the next.

Talk won't have anything to do with it.

Your racing just reflects your training.

Not your talking.

My training is coming along great.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 5:54 am

hjs wrote:OK maybe 99.999%
Yes, by the end, I think the 2K probably was a 99% UT1 effort.

I probably got to my anaerobic threshold.

No anaerobic rowing yet, though.

After a couple of weeks of this training, as I bring up my anaerobic capacities, I will be at AT, not UT1.

The training bands are separated by 5 seconds per 500m.

With my HR at AT, above my anaerobic threshold, I will just pull through a 2K, 1:37 @ 32 spm.

Then it is on to training at TR and AN.

When you are fully trained, with your TR and AN capacities fully up and running, UT1 is 2K + 10.

1:47 is UT1 for a 1:37 2K.

1:42 is UT1 for a 1:32 2K.

etc.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 15th, 2010, 6:01 am, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

User avatar
Steve G
2k Poster
Posts: 312
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 4:02 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Steve G » February 15th, 2010, 5:56 am

Rich
Good 2K time, did you weigh in first to rank it.
Would you have done this under pressure at Boston?
Perhaps you should have gone off at a more sensible pace in Cincinatti, you cannot improve that much in 8 days!
Steve

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 6:02 am

Steve G wrote:Rich
Good 2K time, did you weigh in first to rank it.
Would you have done this under pressure at Boston?
Perhaps you should have gone off at a more sensible pace in Cincinatti, you cannot improve that much in 8 days!
Steve
No anaerobic training yet, Steve.

This was a UT1 row.

Yes, I weighed in before I rowed it.

I am at weight.

I can't improve that much in a 2K in 8 days?

Speak for yourself, son.

You haven't been listening, guy.

My foundational rowing right now predicts 6:16.

All I need to do is raise my heart rate.

That doesn't take much time at all.

I think I'll have my heart rate up to max within the week.

Then we'll really start to see where things stand.

When you are fully trained, the 2K is a severely anaerobic row.

You turn blue over the last 300m and when the meters on the PM4 finally read 0, you fall off the erg onto your face and lay on the ground for a half an hour before you can get up and walk a straight line.

Your anaerobic capacities contribute as much as 20% to your best time in a 2K.

20% of 420 watts is 84 watts!

That's 8 seconds per 500m, the difference between 1:42 and 1:34.

Those who just sharpen all the time and don't build a big base don't get anything from race preparation at all, except worse, as we saw at WIRC with Mike VB and NazHaz.

Both rowed better at YankeeRunner's little regatta than at WIRC.

As my HR comes up this week, I'll think I'll pull 6:32 for 2K, at home, before Sunday's race in Cleveland.

That will be an AT row.

Then it is on to training at TR and AN.

I repeat:

When you are fully trained, UT1 is 2K + 10.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 15th, 2010, 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 6:22 am

BTW, if I can beat Paul Siebach's 6:31.1 at Cleveland this weekend, I will have the best 50s lwt row of the year--already.

And without any significant anaerobic training, just with an AT row.

Whey you are ully trained, with your TR and AN capacities all up and running, too, AT is 2K + 5.

In general, 5K is done at AT.

ranger.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 6:26 am

If I can pull 6:28 at Cleveland this weekend, a nice goal would be to try to catch Steve Krum at Chicago the next weekend, rowing as a lightweight.

Steve pulled 6:25 at WIRC 2010 to win gold in the 55s hwts.

6:25 would break the 50s lwt WR.

In a few days, I will be 60.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 15th, 2010, 6:47 am

After three weeks of anaerobic training and racing, with my HR responsive and up to max, I will rate 36 spm in Detroit on March 7, rather than 31 spm, and having my full capacities up and running, I'll relax into it more, and pull 11.7 SPI, rather than 10.6 SPI.

Result: 6:16

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

Locked