The Two Types of Training

hjs · Post by **hjs** » February 14th, 2010, 6:47 am

ranger wrote:When Mike VB and Rocket Roy do the 500m-thing, their natural stroking power comes out to be 9.5 SPI.

Rowing well for a lightweight of any age is 13 SPI.

ranger

Keyword : DO

The best 500 you have show was 1.49 this night at rate 50 plus hahahahaha

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 7:16 am

My racing stroke has emerged beautifully.

I just caught the full rhythm of it today.

Gorgeous stuff.

Quick catch, full extension with pointed toes, long pry with the torso with long arms against 185 drag, quick finish that matches the rhythm of the catch, quick arms away that match the rhythm of the finish (and therefore, catch, too), nice float down the slide back to the catch, marked deceleration into the catch, good preparation before the next leg drive, full stop before the legs drive, and then around the horn again for another stroke.

1.7, golden section, ratio

1:34 @ 36 spm (11.7 SPI, 8.87 MPS).

This isn't 8 MPS, probably because of the high drag and my emphasis on my back rather than my legs, but I suppose it is my version of the perfect stroke.

It is the perfect stroke for me.

Now I get to practice it for three weeks--and then let it rip in a 2K.

Of course, if it turns out, down the line, e.g., next year, I can go faster, I don't think I would change anything technically.

I would just raise the rate.

At the same stroking power, with the same motion, I do 1:32 @ 38 spm, and with a just a little more power, moving it up to 12 SPI, to keep the rate controlled, I do 1:30 @ 40 spm.

Ideally, I suppose, I might want to shoot for 500s, 1:30 @ 40 spm, and a 1K trial at the same.

1:30 @ 40 spm brings me _very_ close to Rupp's ideal of 8 MPS for racing.

It's 8.33 MPS.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 7:30 am

BTW, I am now doing 1:44 for just relaxed distance rowing, with a middlin' UT1 HR, and was amazed to see 1:40 @ 28 spm emerging, just naturally.

1:40 @ 28 spm would be close to perfect for me.

12.3 SPI

1:40 @ 27 spm is 13 SPI, rowing well.

If I rowed a lot of 1:40 @ 28 spm, after a while, I don't think it would hard to find just a little more umph somewhere to row well (1:40 @ 27 spm, 13 SPI), even in my distance rowing.

If that happens, my RWBs work on technique and stroking power will have worked beyond my wildest dreams.

13 SPI for distance rowing at normal rates would be 4 SPI or so more pøwer than I used to use when I rowed long distances.

Again, other good 55s lwts, such as Rocket Roy and Mike VB, prefer about 9.5 SPI (e.g., 1:51 @ 27 spm, 10 MPS, 9.5 SPI) for their distance rowing.

The difference is 11 seconds per 500m at the same rate.

What challenges lie ahead over the next three weeks?

FM @ 1:48
HM @ 1:45
60min @ 1:44
10K @ 1:42
6K @ 1:40
5K @ 1:39
4 x 2K @ 1:38
4 x 1K @ 1:34
8 x 500m @ 1:31
1K @ 1:30
500m @ 1:24

I am now rowing right at my racing targets.

These targets are coming clearly into view.

Training is becoming racing.

ranger

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » February 14th, 2010, 7:39 am

He's posting on here at 6:30am EST so I guess he's a no show for the CRASH-Bs.

No 6:28 this year.

Best of luck to Mike VB who'll only have the honest opposition to race against.

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 8:10 am

I think the 500s to practice the most now are 1:32 @ 38 spm, with 3:30 of active rest in between.

8 of them predicts a 6:20 2K.

20 of them predicts a 6:08 2K.

40 of them predicts a 6:00 2K.

Back in 2003, I did 40 x 500m @ 1:39, seven seconds per 500m off of 1:32.

In 2003, I pulled 1:37 for 2K.

For a little lightweight like me, 38 spm is a very controlled rate for 500s.

Back in 2003, I had to rate 40 spm to pull 1:36.

ranger

Steve G · Post by **Steve G** » February 14th, 2010, 8:32 am

ranger wrote:SNIP
For whatever reason, even though I will be 60 years old in a few days, I have retained _all_ of my youthful full-body power.

ranger

P.S. BTW, I _never_ lift weights. I never have.

Time slip territory again.
You will not be 60 in a few days time, get that in your head, you are younger than me and I am 60 in 8 months time, you cannot suddenly overtake me in the age stakes, then again, in your Fantasy Island land, who knows?

Steve
59

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 9:00 am

Actually, I think that my best bet for a racing stroke, this year at least, is to lengthen my back swing just a bit so that I get 1:34 @ 34 spm (12.4 SPI). That's easy to do.

in a 2K, I am more comfortable, both aerobically and mechanically, at 34 spm rather than 36 spm.

Today, I was consistently getting 1:37 @ 31 spm (12.4 SPI) on the 10MPS ladder.

As I remember, this 1:34 @ 34 spm (12.4 SPI) is almost exactly what Mike Caviston pulled when he set the 40s lwt WR.

In a few days, I will be 60.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 9:52 am

Citroen wrote:He's posting on here at 6:30am EST so I guess he's a no show for the CRASH-Bs.

No 6:28 this year.

Best of luck to Mike VB who'll only have the honest opposition to race against.

My 6:28 goal for my first good 2K this year has nothing to do with the CRASH-Bs.

I have three more regattas this year (Cleveland, Chicago, and Deroit)--on the next three weekends.

My winter racing season doesn't end until March 7th.

If I get in some good sharpening workouts this week, 1:32-1:34 for 8 x 500m, 4 x 1K @ 1:35-1:37, and 4 x 2K @ 1:40-1:42, I think it is a lock that I will pull that 6:28 this weekend in Cleveland.

And I think that there is still a good chance that I will row 6:16 by Detroit, three weeks from now.

You are right that next year will be fun at the CRASH-Bs, though, when I will be 60.

The 60s lwt WIRC championship record is 6:50.8 by Brian Bailey.

Who knows, but I may be able to lower that by 10 seconds per 500m.

Next year, neither Mike VB nor Rocket Roy will be 60.

They will still be 55s lwts.

ranger

Steve G · Post by **Steve G** » February 14th, 2010, 10:40 am

Rich
Do you reckon you can go from 7.11 to 6.28 in 2 weeks, I dont think so! 2 more DNS for you today to add to the list.
Steve

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 11:06 am

Steve G wrote:Rich
Do you reckon you can go 6.28 in two weeks

If you do the various 2K predictor workouts, there is no "reckoning" needed.

The prediction holds, and these predictions are good.

In erging, racing just follows directly from training, if you are doing sharpening workouts regularly, as I will be for the next three weeks.

Racing is predictable.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 11:09 am

BTW, I don't know why this is coming so easily now, but I also have really caught on to the rhythm of the Danish Lightweight Rowing Stroke, 1:30 @ 42 spm.

I think that's what I will try to shoot for in my 8 x 500m workouts.

John R. is right.

That 8 MPS business, when done at full stroking power (12 SPI, etc.), is really something.

_Very_ efficient rowing.

ranger

hjs · Post by **hjs** » February 14th, 2010, 11:56 am

http://utilities.concept2.com/replays/c ... 10/AHeat04

take your shot's Dangy

BrianStaff · Post by **BrianStaff** » February 14th, 2010, 12:58 pm

2010 Mens Lwt 55-59 Results

http://www.concept2.com/us/racing/crash ... ace=12&w=l

Mike took the hammer in 6:49.7...congratulations!

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 14th, 2010, 1:04 pm

Congrats to Mike indeed.

So, Mike got within a dozen seconds of his 2K prediction and was about five seconds off of his pb.

He predicted 6:37.7 and got 6:49.7.

His 4.7 second decline from two years ago is standard, give or take a bit, given his traditional training.

So.

If I pull 6:33 in one of my last three regattas, I get as close to my pb, and with a time that is almost 17 seconds faster overall.

If I pull 6:28 in one of my last three regattas, I get five seconds closer to my pb, by meeting it, and get as close to my lifetime ambition, 6:16, which I am far from being fully trained for, but am making good progress toward, as Mike got to his prediction for this year, and with a time that is almost 22 seconds faster than Mike's, overall.

If I pull 6:22 in one of these regattas, I get eleven seconds on Mike with respect to my pb and twice as close to my lifetime ambition as Mike did to his prediction for this year, with a time that is almost 28 seconds faster than Mike's, overall.

If I pull 6:16 in one of my last three regatta, I get 17 seconds on Mike with respect to my pb and a dozen seconds closer to my lifetime ambition, by meeting it, than Mike did to his prediction for this year, and with a time that is almost 34 seconds faster than Mike's, overall.

Game on.

It's nice to have some facts to consider.

The erg is a truth machine.

ranger

aharmer · Post by **aharmer** » February 14th, 2010, 1:42 pm

All I know is that within the last two weeks Mike sat on an erg at a race and pulled 6:49. You sat on an erg at a race and pulled 7:11. Until you sit on an erg at a race and do anything except pull 7:11, you are a 7:11 2k guy. Nothing more, nothing less.