The Two Types of Training

[chgoss]

In erging, racing is entirely predictable. It follows by formula from training (sprint pbs, distance pbs, predictor sharpening workouts, etc.). There is no uncertainty whatsoever.

Given your belief that you walk into a venue knowing exactly the time you will pull, I'm confused by your reaction to your recent race... you seemed surprised at your 7:11 result.

As the forum here has suggested, given what I have been doing in training with both diet and exercise, I was depleted, stale, and unprepared for the 2K I was supposed to race.

[ranger]

In erging, racing is entirely predictable. It follows by formula from training (sprint pbs, distance pbs, predictor sharpening workouts, etc.). There is no uncertainty whatsoever.

Given your belief that you walk into a venue knowing exactly the time you will pull, I'm confused by your reaction to your recent race... you seemed surprised at your 7:11 result.

As the forum here has suggested, given what I have been doing in training with both diet and exercise, I was depleted, stale, and unprepared for the 2K I was supposed to race.

When you are prepared to race, that is, when you are fully sharpened, with a full range of distance pbs, sprint pbs, and results on sharpening workouts, the result of an erg race is entirely predictable.

But sure, if you're not fully prepared to race, the outcome is unpredictable. For whatever reason, sometimes you do well, sometimes not, as in a training session, or as in certain points in training, as you are bringing certain skills and capacities up to steam (weight, fitness, technique, rate, heart rate, aerobic capacity, endurance, etc.) and are putting out various sorts of effort from day to day, both in terms of quality and quantity.

In 2003, I got fully ready to race and held it there for quite a while.

Result: 6:33, 6:30, 6:32, 6:29, 6:28, 6:32--over the period of a year.

Rowing badly, pulling 10.5 SPI, I performed consistently; but these 6:30 rows were clearly the limit for me unless I did something about my technique and stroking power.

At 10.5 SPI, you have to rate 36 spm to pull 6:30.

I can't rate any higher than that in a 2K.

It has certainly taken a while, but over the last seven years I have indeed done something about my technique and stroking power.

So I now have the possibility of improving over 2K, rather than being stuck at 6:30.

I am now pulling 12.5 SPI, rowing well.

ranger

[JimR]

First ... no apologies needed ... I was looking for clarity, why I would be in a ranger thread expecting that is another topic to be sure.

Point: Viren was somehow able to string together a "double/double" set of golds in the '72 & '76 Olympics...(none of the "learn how to" stuff)
Also: He not only got knocked down in a 10k final in Munich, but he got up and won with a WR....

Factoring your observation into the fictional account of the 6:16 saga I should then have expected that ranger would have went out at sub 1:40 for 1K, handled down and then started up at whatever pace would have resulted in a 6:16.

Now that would have been a surprise ending to the 2010 Cincinatti chapter. This 7:11 because "I was tired" was a disappointing rehash of old chapters ... I had hoped for much better when I came back to the ranger "story". The run-up was getting interesting though.

JimR

[chgoss]

There are two types of training
(1) training that advances your base so that you have the possibility of going faster than you did last year or five years ago
(2) training that gets you ready to race.

A somewhat different repackaging of your previous definition (see below), 2 questions:
- why the shift from 3 stages to 2?
- does your "12 second rule" apply to training type #2? (i.e. one can only consider training type #1 completed if they are within 12 seconds of their target race goal)

Code: Select all

Ranger's stages of training 
(1) Row effectively/foundational rowing (at low rates, middle distances, and high stroking power). Don't race your training!
(2) Row efficiently/hard distance rowing/pre-sharpening (at low stroking powers, long distances, and up to 30 spm). Don't race your training!
(3) Sharpening (at high rates, middling stroking powers, and short distances, 2 month's at most). Now it's time to race your training!. Get out the clock and bust it to the max!
(4) Race (at middling rates, middling stroking powers, and middling distances).

Notes: 
- "Dont race your training" means: dont record the time it took to complete a distance, regardless of the rate or pace of that session, as the very act of recording the time/distace transforms a stage 1 or 2 session, into a stage 3 "sharpening" session.
- A person can only start #3 when they are within 12 seconds of their target race goal. 

[macroth]

Follow-up question:

How does one know if they're ready for sharpening (i.e. they are within 12s of their goal) if they don't record the time it takes them to complete a given distance?

[aharmer]

Okay Rich, this is all very confusing to me. Back on September 27th (approximately page 6 of the original thread) you were talking about doing 8x500. You had already started doing these, and were cocking off about betting $2000 that you would post screen shots of your sessions.

You also had this to say on September 27th, 2009:

"1:45 @ 28 spm (11 SPI) is just my standard distance stroke these days."

I'm sure we could go back and find loads of evidence of you stating that you were doing distance rows even faster than that.

So what really confuses me is how you can do distance rowing at 1:45, but since you're not sharpened you can't even hold 1:47 pace for 2K?? Nothing adds up...what part(s) of the equation are you lying about?

[macroth]

"stroke"

singular

[JimR]

Not that I'm an "expert" or anything but my two cents ... when we read ...

You [ranger] also had this to say on September 27th, 2009:

"1:45 @ 28 spm (11 SPI) is just my standard distance stroke these days."

This isn't "lying" ... it is people misunderstanding the future tense of the statement. A more clear statement (but far too wordy to type repeatedly) would be ...

1:45 @ 28 spm (11 SPI) is just my standard distance stroke based on the SPI I would do for a distance piece combined with what pace I used to do five years ago when I was the best novice the rowing world had ever seen, extrapolated to a future point when all my training is complete, perfect and fully sharpened in a massive maxHR sate of being.

Or so I think ...

JimR

[Nosmo]

Not that I'm an "expert" or anything but my two cents ... when we read ...

You [ranger] also had this to say on September 27th, 2009:

"1:45 @ 28 spm (11 SPI) is just my standard distance stroke these days."

This isn't "lying" ... it is people misunderstanding the future tense of the statement. A more clear statement (but far too wordy to type repeatedly) would be ...

1:45 @ 28 spm (11 SPI) is just my standard distance stroke based on the SPI I would do for a distance piece combined with what pace I used to do five years ago when I was the best novice the rowing world had ever seen, extrapolated to a future point when all my training is complete, perfect and fully sharpened in a massive maxHR sate of being.

Or so I think ...

JimR

Or maybe it means "when I do distance training, I can throw in a lot of 1:45 @ 28 spm and still feel comfortable." It doesnst mean he can do it consitantly or without breaks.

[mikvan52]

Okay Rich, this is all very confusing to me.

I guess you could say it's tantalizing too!

We can only guess what our hero really does... he will never share

I include this account of who Tantalus was reputed to be...
Perhaps the reason ranger doesn't share is because he saw what happened to Tantalus when he "Shared"

Tantalus

by James Hunter
Tantalus was the son of Zeus and was the king of Sipylos. He was uniquely favored among mortals since he was invited to share the food of the gods. However, he abused the guest-host relationship and was punished by being "tantalized" with hunger and thirst in Tartarus: he was immersed up to his neck in water, but when he bent to drink, it all drained away; luscious fruit hung on trees above him, but when he reached for it the winds blew the branches beyond his reach.
There are differing stories about what Tantalus' crime was. One account says that he tried to share the divine ambrosia with other mortals, and thus aroused the ire of the gods. A more famous account says that he invited the gods to a banquet and served them the dismembered body of his own son, Pelops; when the gods discovered the trick, they punished Tantalus and restored Pelops to life, replacing with ivory a part of the shoulder which had been eaten by Demeter.
Tantalus' family was an ill-fated one. His daughter, Niobe, lost all her children and was turned to stone. His son, Pelops, was murdered, cooked, and restored to life. His grandsons, Atreus and Thyestes, struggled for power, and Atreus committed a variation of Tantalus' cannabilistic trick with Thyestes' children. His great-grandson, Agamemnon, was murdered by another great-grandson, Aegisthus, who was in turn killed by a great-great-grandson, Orestes.

Like Tantalus', ranger's "fruit" will always be beyond his reach

sic transit gloria (last Sunday)

[JimR]

Like Tantalus', ranger's "fruit" will always be beyond his reach

There is no reason to think that ranger's "fruit" won't ever be reached at some future time is there? After all ... doesn't the person who pushed the rock up the hill eventually put it over the top ... doesn't the pheonix rise from the ashes?

JimR

[BrianStaff]

Or could you outline your poetics for us?

Don't go there - have seen what his students say about him?

[BrianStaff]

Welcome to the little engine that could.

[JimR]

Or could you outline your poetics for us?

Don't go there - have seen what his students say about him?

His students ... like the people in this thread ... just do not understand the sinifance of the information being presented here. If you grasped just a drop of this you too would be a WR-holder on the erg.

JimR

[johnlvs2run]

Either way, drop the talk of SPI and now rowing well, etc. It is clear that your 2003 style was superior (you have never been faster). Furthermore, introducing that (2003) style into rowing was your great rowing achievement and will be your true legacy when you retire. It was unprecedented, outlandish and authentic! You turned your back on it but it's not too late. Turn back now, while you still can.

I am quite serious about all of this. Please give it some thought.

Walter, I agree with you 100%

One of my favorite parts in the original Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid is when they went to his Sheriff friend
and said they'd turn themselves in. The Sheriff told Butch, don't you get it????? You've gone to far, you've done too much!!!
you can't turn back now!! It's all over for you Butch, they're going to kill you and you're going to die a horrible death, etc etc.
Wish I could find the video of that, not for this, it's just a really good message.