Adding external resistance

[Steelhead]

So my question is whether it makes sense to either: (a) crank up the damper setting to 11; or (b) add an external load such as a weight vest to C2 workouts.

If it ever makes sense to add additional load in one of those ways, what are some ways you might do so?

Here's how to get a drag factor of 360.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... 360#104665

That would bust my knees. The drag factor on my Model B at the lowest setting is above 200; the Model C at the Y at the highest setting is around 180. The reason I pump iron is so that I don't have to have a drag factor of 360, but actually it could be a great leg workout. But I would rather do my squats and then erg with a DF around 115 - 120.

[johnlvs2run]

That would bust my knees. The drag factor on my Model B at the lowest setting is above 200

But that's only a (200/1.23 =) 163 equivalent resistence on a modelC, D/E.

The 360 felt fine to me, it just can't be pushed as quickly.

It has a nice feeling to it actually, much easier to go fast with less movement, but also more tiring.

[Steelhead]

That would bust my knees. The drag factor on my Model B at the lowest setting is above 200

But that's only a (200/1.23 =) 163 equivalent resistence on a modelC, D/E.

The 360 felt fine to me, it just can't be pushed as quickly.

It has a nice feeling to it actually, much easier to go fast with less movement, but also more tiring.

It would be like a leg machine. I would rather use the leg machine. And use the erg for rowing. I do a HF marathon every other day with a damper setting of 3, and 30' on the other days after 2 hours of weight training with a damper setting of 10. What I have noticed over all the years I have used my erg is that if I use a high DF and take a few weeks off weight training, when I get back to the weight training I haven't lost any strength -- many times I have increased in strength, but if I use a low DF during a similar time period, I do lose strength (but I think I have figured out why and can correct that if need be).

So . . . with a DF of 360 how long can you erg and what is your split?

[johnlvs2run]

It would be like a leg machine. I would rather use the leg machine. And use the erg for rowing.

That's the point. A leg machine does not have the range of motion and same pathways as does rowing.

I do a HF marathon every other day with a damper setting of 3, and 30' on the other days after 2 hours of weight training with a damper setting of 10. What I have noticed over all the years I have used my erg is that if I use a high DF and take a few weeks off weight training, when I get back to the weight training I haven't lost any strength -- many times I have increased in strength, but if I use a low DF during a similar time period, I do lose strength (but I think I have figured out why and can correct that if need be).

That's great. I found the same with alternating high and low damper settings, but overall found no faster performances to result. The advantage is that high df's are very restful and soothing to the nerves, because the motion is relatively slow.

So . . . with a DF of 360 how long can you erg and what is your split?

I could probably row a marathon at 360, the same as at 77 but did not attempt to do that. I did a marathon workout 5x8k plus 2 sets of 4x 1' rest 1' (more than marathon distance) at 220 df the week before doing my 1st marathon 2:58 at a drag factor of 77. I felt the previous week session helped me greatly for the marathon. But it was a lot of work for my muscles, so I put the df low for the marathon, to focus more on my speed (nerves vs muscles).

[NELSON]

Yo Mike,

I made a initial bad assumption, assuming that the goal was to get faster on the erg instead of using the erg as xtraining tool for anther venture.
Oohs, my mistake, plus I never argue with a rugby player!
Also, I really value John Rupp's input as I have tried to keep up with him over the years(500M-1/2M), he has sort of left me in the dust the last few years though.

Stay healthy & row strong for whatever venture.

[mikvan52]

on the other side of the coin:\\

Newbies should be alerted that US National team rowers do a lot of lifting.
Big resistances... lower reps than the rowing motion...

When they row the erg, only a minute fraction of their meters are done at high drag..
Indeed, more recently, trainers want their athletes to row on slides too. This takes the load off the lower back at the catch and encourages good form.

Naturally: It all depends on what your goals/distance focus/etc. are...

[JohnBove]

Also, adding weight to your body will have little to no effect on the erg since it's a non weightbearing activity for the most part. IMO the C2 has more resistance than anyone can ever use. Just try and go faster and faster. Tabatas on the erg are brutal, now row like that for a full 500m straight. You can't do it. So plenty of ''resisrance'' even at low drag factors.

This was the comment I was going to make. Since the c2's resistance is dynamic and not fixed (the harder you pull the more it resists), it can wipe anyone out. To row wearing a weighted vest seems to me idiotic. Not to say how silly you'd look ...

[johnlvs2run]

Nelson,
Good to see you here.
Thanks for your comments.
I think you have good speed still with your 500m time.
And you're rowing much more than me now.
All the best,
John

[NELSON]

Yo John,

Right back at you with the comp. My chemo treatments have destroyed my middle & long distance rowing muscle endurance. I was always good in the 5000M-1/2M distances & the 500M but suffered in the 1000M & 2000M. Now in my 3rd occurrence, I have not been on continuous chemo for almost 2 years,battling the BIG C for 5 years, and it does take its toll. I row because it keeps me strong & connected.

Stay healthy & row strong.

[johnlvs2run]

Yo John,

Right back at you with the comp. My chemo treatments have destroyed my middle & long distance rowing muscle endurance. I was always good in the 5000M-1/2M distances & the 500M but suffered in the 1000M & 2000M. Now in my 3rd occurrence, I have not been on continuous chemo for almost 2 years,battling the BIG C for 5 years, and it does take its toll. I row because it keeps me strong & connected.

Stay healthy & row strong.

Nelson,
Maybe look at some alternatives.
I'm not a fan of anyone trying to destroy my immune system, vis a vis trying to "help" me (i.e. help themselves).
Yes I remember you were always much stronger in the longer distances, 5k through 1/2 marathon.
Maybe you can get there again. I think you can.
By the way, those types told me I had less than one month to live. That was in 1978.
I walked out and I'm still here. Maybe they aren't.
Staying healthy, that's the key.
Best regards,
John

[Marc1]

I like the idea of lifting the back end. Thanks for that tip!

Marc

[GlennUk]

To quote a highly respected rowing coach, cannot remember his name, "To get fast, go fast". Why add external weights? If you want to free weight train then free weight train. Why row at those high dampier settings? I might be mistaken about this, but I don't think any of the world class rowers row at those high levels. A specific workout at a high level is acceptable as part of your overall training program but not as a daily routine.

Just my 2 cents & I am no where close to being in the world class section!

In Concept 2's Rugby Training Guide, in pertinent part, it states: "Increasing the drag on the Concept2 rower will provide a higher resistance. Combining this with a low stroke rate and maximal efforts on each pull will improve strength and power in muscles that are an essential part of being a better rugby player."

Extrapolating from this, using an erg for cross-training, suggests that there is a place for increasing setting to the 8-10 as suggested in the initial post as part of the Cross-Fit program. I suppose the point is that if one is not using the erg to train for crew, that is, using a lower setting, as professional rowers do, then a higher setting and concomitant drag factor has its place.

The Training Guide also states in pertinent part: "A well trained rugby player may not receive any direct benefits from including aerobic based rowing but may obtain indirect benefits over time from assisting with the optimization of body weight and body fat, thermo-regulatory adaptation, physiological and psychological recover, needed variety, and the prevention of injuries, burn-out and over-training."

Consequently, if one's primary sport is weight-lifting or weight-training, then one may use the erg differently from someone whose primary sport is crew or cycling. Everyone doesn't need to use a 3 or a 10 setting -- they should tailor the use of the erg for their particular needs.

I think.

Sound eminently sensible

[frankencrank]

Not to dredge up many past threads, but another alternative is to elevate the back of the erg a bit. I used to keep a couple short lengths of 2x6 around if I was feeling like working things a bit harder without increasing the drag factor. Be sure to control the recovery speed.

That would have the same effect as wearing a vest on a climb. If you were to add to that wearing a vest with the rear elevated that would increase the effect.

Another way to change the workout (and incorporate completely different muscles) is to elevate the flywheel end. This forces the use of the hip flexors/hamstrings to do some work during recovery. It is hard than you think it will be because these are pretty much couch potato muscles from an aerobic standpoint.

[rowingdude]

For erging advice, I look how the national teams train.

There is no need to add weight to yourself. Pull harder, push your legs down faster. That's how you go faster.

Crossfit has a very sour taste in my mind for its many adherents having lack luster form and control, in spite of their claims of being "sport ready".. cross fitters who come to my club because they "pull hard" on the erg and think that magically translates to being the next shoe-in for the US Olympics team get a rude awakening and often don't return (yes, this is a reflection on that athlete personally, but there is a disquieting trend).

[frankencrank]

For erging advice, I look how the national teams train.

The problem with copying the elites is if you aren't training like them then what they are doing probably isn't what is best for you. Amateur cyclists make the same mistake trying to emulate the pros who are putting out twice the power and training 3 times as much.

Pull harder, push your legs down faster. That's how you go faster.

Maybe, maybe not. In most cases, not. It is complicated.