6:28 2K

[hjs]

You will never row 6.30. You won't break 6.40.

If you set out at a 1.38 pace, you will handle down at about the 1k mark. . .

. . . After which you will blah blah blah. . .

If he rows, I still doubt that, will it be againreat, going out at 1.38 will give a plus 7 for sure

His little egine simply can't take that anymore.

Hmm, don't know about that.

The engine can still take one hell of a lot.

But it has to be trained to do it.

This row won't be much more than AT.

HR won't get much beyond 175 bpm, I would expect, and even so, not for long.

By March, I will be riding my HR for 1K or more at 185 bpm, pushing it to 190 bpm by the end.

ranger

Sure dream on, in fact I think you will even do worse this year, your ongoing weightslos will rob you from the strength you had last year. So 6.41 is not possible anymore.
And you name it whatever you want, call it u2 if you want

[ranger]

your ongoing weightslos will rob you from the strength you had last year.

Losing fat doesn't rob you of strength.

Dehydrating to make weight, does.

That is, _not_ losing weight (being too heavy) robs you of strength (when you race).

No dehydration necessary this year.

My weight preparation has been perfect.

I'll just get up, drink some coffee, drive to the venue, do a little warm up, and stand on the scales at 165 lbs.

ranger

[ranger]

I have decided to drive down to Cincinnati tomorrow morning early.

This will give the storm time to clear.

I'll also save time and money--no motel necessary, no checking in and out, no waiting around.

I am even considering a 8 x 500m session @ 1:34 this afternoon, but perhaps that is going a little far.

Working right through a race is one thing.

That is another.

The more speed work the merrier from now on, though.

I just need to keep doin' it.

The more I do, the better I'll get over 2K.

The gains will be large as I bring out the potential of my base.

My base is huge.

1:34 @ 34 spm (12.4 SPI) feels great.

I think that will be my 2K pace and rate by the first week in March, and I think, by that time, I will have the appropriate predictor workouts and distance pieces under my belt, done and recorded, to support and an attempt at 6:16.

ranger

[TomR]

This row won't be much more than AT.

Nonsense. If it were "AT," you could hold it for 5k. You can't do a 5k at a 1.38 pace. Tomorrow will prove you can't do 2k at a 1.38 pace.

Just pay Henry the money you owe him and quit yapping.

[ranger]

This row won't be much more than AT.

If it were "AT," you could hold it for 5k. You can't do a 5k at a 1.38 pace.

Yes.

My 5K target is 1:39.

30-32 spm

That's exactly what I am going to do for 5K.

In 2003, I did 4K @ 1:42, but that was pulling 10.5 SPI, rowing like shit.

I now pull 12.5 SPI.

I now row well.

ranger

[snowleopard]

HR won't get much beyond 175 bpm

How could it? That's your max

[ranger]

HR won't get much beyond 175 bpm

How could it? That's your max

No.

My maxHR is 190 bpm.

I routinely see 175 bpm, just working mildly with my distance rowing.

172 bpm is my anaerobic threshold.

As I do more interval work, I'll get some screen shots of my HR.

I saw 185 bpm last winter, and I wasn't even working that hard, given that I did no organized sharpening or distance trials.

This year, I am pushing my distance rowing and sharpening to the max for a month.

ranger

[ranger]

At 34-36 spm in a 2K, 55s and 60s lwts pull 9.5 SPI.

323-342 watts

1:41-1:43

I am now pulling 12.5 SPI.

At race rates, the difference in pace generated by a stroke that is 3 SPI stronger than another stroke is _enormous_.

100 watts

Nine seconds per 500m

No 60s lwt has ever had anything close to 12.5 SPI to work with in their 2K racing stroke.

Eskild now pulls 10.5 SPI, and he is 37 years old.

10.5 SPI @ 39 spm

408 watts

1:35

6:20

ranger

[blake_mulder]

Ranger

All the best for tomorrow! Give it some!

[Byron Drachman]

Feb 6, 2010: BTW, I am now training, fully hydrated, right at 165 lbs., so any pieces I do in my training over the next month are lightweight rows.

Feb 6, 2010: My post-workout weight is now down below 160 lbs. Good news.

Feb 6, 2010: I don't have my HR fully up yet in training, although my training is a lot more advanced that it was last year.
This will change quickly now, though--warp speed--given all of the fast rowing I will be doing.
I will be _a lot_ better over 2K next week than I am this week--and so forth until the first week in March.
I will be sharpening at 34-44 spm every day, heart rates over my anaerobic threshold, pushing to max.

If you start your workout weighing 165 pounds and finish weighing 160 pounds or less you are obviously dehydrated during the latter part of your workout. Once you are dehydrated, it is very easy to get a high heart rate. You have reduced stroke volume and consequently higher heart rate. It does not mean that you are having an intense workout. It merely means you are suffering from cardiac drift.

From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9694416

Cardiovascular drift during prolonged exercise and the effects of dehydration.

Coyle EF.

Department of Kinesiology and Health Education, The University of Texas at Austin, USA. coyle@mail.utexas.edu

Reductions in SV are the most striking component of "classic" CV drift as well as "dehydration induced" CV drift. Direct data for the widespread notion that increased skin blood flow causes SV to be reduced during "classic" CV drift is rather scarce. Reductions in SV due to dehydration and concomitant hyperthermia are clearly not due to increases in skin blood flow. Instead, skin blood flow declines as skin and systemic vascular resistance increase as the CV system attempts to cope with the severe challenge of large reductions in cardiac output. Approximately one-half of the reduction in SV is due to reduced blood volume from dehydration during exercise which produces hyperthermia. The remaining reduction in SV with dehydration and hyperthermia appears to be related to additional factors such as hyperthermia and their interaction with factors that further reduce ventricular filling, such as heart rate acceleration.

PMID: 9694416 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[johnlvs2run]

Once you are dehydrated, it is very easy to get a high heart rate. You have reduced stroke volume and consequently higher heart rate.

Not so.

You have made quite a leap to assume lowered SV due to dehydration would mean a higher HR.
Given cardiac output = SV x HR, what makes you think a dehydrated athlete would have the same performance as one fully hydrated???
In fact, I have found achieving high HRs under dehydrated conditions to be more difficult, not less.

As an example, my max HR is 174, hydrated and racing.
Now, you are saying that were I dehydrated my max HR would be higher??? I think not.

By the way, I believe one of the profs at Austin or who was there several decades ago was the same fellow
who told me morbidly obese people were in better shape than athletes, because their heart rates were higher at rest!!!
I would not give any credence to any studies from there, nor most other "studies."
Much more useful information was published about SV by Gershler, Reindell et all circa the 1930's and 40's.

[leadville]

Byron - I admire the goodwill demonstrated by your research and attempt to educate ranger; but even an observer with my very limited exposure to the guy wonders if it is worth the effort.

He'll come up with some completely unfounded and ludicrously wrong explanation for why he's different and the laws that apply to humans aren't in force in rangerworld.

As a side note, I did notice he's changed his travel plans for tomorrow; any doubt now that he'll 'handle down' before leaving his driveway, missing Cincy due to some unforeseen weather event?

Cowards do that; avoid confronting their fears.

[johnlvs2run]

I have decided to drive down to Cincinnati tomorrow morning early.

This will give the storm time to clear.

I'll also save time and money--no motel necessary, no checking in and out, no waiting around.

Great idea! I would do the same thing.

Have fun and do well!

[leadville]

Once you are dehydrated, it is very easy to get a high heart rate. You have reduced stroke volume and consequently higher heart rate.

Not so.

You have made quite a leap to assume lowered SV due to dehydration would mean a higher HR.
Given cardiac output = SV x HR, what makes you think a dehydrated athlete would have the same performance as one fully hydrated???
In fact, I have found achieving high HRs under dehydrated conditions to be more difficult, not less.

As an example, my max HR is 174, hydrated and racing.
Now, you are saying that were I dehydrated my max HR would be higher??? I think not.

By the way, I believe one of the profs at Austin or who was there several decades ago was the same fellow
who told me morbidly obese people were in better shape than athletes, because their heart rates were higher at rest!!!
I would not give any credence to any studies from there, nor most other "studies."
Much more useful information was published about SV by Gershler, Reindell et all circa the 1930's and 40's.

John - I don't believe Byron said max HRs are affected by dehydration; he said " it is very easy to get a high heart rate."

To continue performing work at the same rate heart rate has to increase if there is less fluid in the body; a decrease in blood volume requires more rapid pumping of the remaining supply to meet muscular demands for oxygen and energy substrates and removal of CO2 and other waste products. This can be exacerbated by vasodilation that occurs during extended high levels of aerobic exercise.

While you may well have experienced a decline in HR when extremely dehydrated, this is likely due to the body telling you it can no longer deliver the necessary blood supply and you have to decrease the workload, a great example of 'negative feedback'. I'd hazard a guess that your performance deteriorated significantly at about the same time.

[NavigationHazard]

No John, Byron is pointing out that as you dehydrate during prolonged exercise you lose plasma volume. This leads to a decrease in stroke volume. If you want to maintain the same exercise intensity, for which you'll need the same cardiac output, HR therefore must increase.

The whole point is that you can't keep trading increased HR for decreased stroke volume forever. At constant work intensity you'll eventually reach your practical cardiac limit, after which performance must begin to degrade.

There's 70-80 years of accumulated research on this.