6:28 2K

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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mikvan52
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Post by mikvan52 » February 4th, 2010, 2:14 pm

In the interest of writing about training actually done for a 6:28 2k I refer people back to NavigationHazard's posts of nearly a week ago.
He is a heavyweight.

THe number of 50+ lightweightswho have rowed under 6:30 is small.

The record is held by Paul Siebach (then 50) who does not train mega-meters.
I know this because he was very generous and reported his training load to me.. (Novel concept!)

If anybody wants to hear what I'm doing with my training they can visit my blog linked in my signature below.

I just wrote an entry as an affirmation of my belief in my form of training.
This training is far less intense than what is speculated about on this thread most of the time. May I point out that the speculation of which I speak is unsubstantiated...

Any way: Here's the affirmation that includes my race plan for CRASH-B
Somethings may change in the last week of preparation but... this IS the race plan as of now.

I would hope to help others plan their TRAINING plans by show the relationship of my pacing of workouts to a final race as I do below.

Note that there are no "shoulds" "if.. thens" "would bes"

I am comforted that I have not "changed horses in midstream" Everything is going according to a set timetable and work loads well thought out by a coach and me.
Coaching has really helped me and (for me) is indispensable.
mike in an affirmation of his training wrote: I'm in the final days of prep. for Crash-B.... This will be my third year of serious work leading into the event and my fourth year (straight) of participation.
This cycle has been the calmest and most uninterrupted: No injury or illness; no missed workouts or "handle-downs".... like last year.
My workout tomorrow will finalize my race plan. I am looking forward to being able to do a dress rehearsal at race pace and rate for the 1st 1500m. The 500 will be just "icing on the cake".


My speed work has been, on the average, faster and steadier and at lower rates than in prior build-ups. I've only rowed one test 2k in a racing environment (6:47.6) during this year's cycle. That was all that was called for.
As you can see below (WEEK 4, Friday) It was not planned as a 100% effort.

Here is my race plan for Boston. I have it broken into 4 sections : 800m - 600m - 400m - 200m based on the 1:39.5 pace I've trained for.

800m @ 1:41.0 and over 30 spm (higher spms than in previous years) Pace is +1.5"
600m @ 1:39.2 and 34 spm (pace is -0.3")
400m @ 1:37.4 and 36 spm (pace is -2.1")
200m @ 1:37.4 and 39 spm (pace is -2.1")

Final time 6:37.5

FYI:
Here are several pairs of my weekly speed workouts (same program as I did last year) I mention only the hearts of the workouts.. There's plenty of other rowing.
My work load at all pressures and rates amounts to 65-75,000 meters a week in 6 days.

all the paces below were based on a hypothetical 2k performance of 6:38... so when I say, for example, 2 k pace +2" , that means 1:39.5 + 2 seconds (1:41.5). "Result" pacing is the average for the whole workout. Details would be needed to properly perform each of these stepping stones to a max 2k.

WEEK #3
Wednesday: 2 sets of 8 x 30 strokes on 20 strokes off @ 2k pace +2" to 0"....................Result Jan 6: 2k -2.4"
Friday........: 2000m, 1500m, 1000 @ +10" down to +2" smaller partial splits...................Result Jan 9: 2k + 4" (approx)

WEEK #4
Wednesday: 2 sets of 10 x 20 strokes on/ 10 strokes off @ +2" down to 0"......................Result Jan 15: -1.5"
Friday..........: 2k controlled piece @ +4" down to 0"................................................................Result Jan 17: + 2.6"

WEEK #5
Wednesday: 2 sets of 10 x 20 strokes @ +2 down to 0"........................................................Result Jan 20: 2k -3.4"
Friday..........: 1250m, 750m, 500m (8' rest) @ +2" down to -2".............................................Result Jan 22: -1.3"

WEEK #6
Wednesday: 2 sets of 6 x 1' on/ 1' off @ +2" down to -2".......................................................Result Jan 27: -2.6"
Friday..........: 1250m, 750m, 500m, 500m @ +4" down to <0"..............................................Result Jan 29: -0.4"

WEEK #7:
Wednesday: 1 set of 20 x 30" on/ 15" off @ 0"........................................................................Result Feb 3: +0.7"
Friday..........: 1500m, 500m @ race plan..................................................................................Result (tbd) (should be slightly less than zero)

WEEK #8:
(Taper with very short sessions of speed on monday and (optional) Friday)
Race is on Sunday at 9:40 am


Today is Thursday of WEEK 7

I send this out as an affirmation
I would love to hear some comments from anyone who is not a game-player.
If you wish to blow smoke or merely rip apart tis affirmation it will fall on deaf ears... I can spot phonies a mile away; don't bother to post.

"Plan the race... Race the Plan"

Remember, my emotional investment in this is immense... but not as big as what the winter season leads to (for me).... The Water and the 1x.

No one can hurt me on the erg because that's not ultimately where it hurts.

Suggestion (if your interested in more particulars): Cross reference any date of "Results" above with dates in my blog linked below :idea:

My hope is that this post will give someone enough information so that they can improve their own training. Please respect the spirit in which it is given.
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

Montanaandy
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Betting

Post by Montanaandy » February 4th, 2010, 2:30 pm

Re: betting - come on now, the "betting" is all about getting Ranger Rick to back up his claims. If you are "offended" then skip the thread but don't take away the daily trainwreck that is "6:28" from the rest of us. We are getting close to the climax of the latest chapter of this never ending saga and I for one am on the edge of my seat with anticipation as to how this will play out. Will he show up and prove all of the nay sayers wrong. Will he bail out and continue along as if nothing happened. Stay tuned...

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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » February 4th, 2010, 2:38 pm

mikvan52 wrote:800m @ 1:41.0 and over 30 spm (higher spms than in previous years) Pace is +1.5"
600m @ 1:39.2 and 34 spm (pace is -0.3")
400m @ 1:37.4 and 36 spm (pace is -2.1")
200m @ 1:37.4 and 39 spm (pace is -2.1")
What kind of recoveries?
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

Alissa
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Post by Alissa » February 4th, 2010, 2:48 pm

John Rupp wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:800m @ 1:41.0 and over 30 spm (higher spms than in previous years) Pace is +1.5"
600m @ 1:39.2 and 34 spm (pace is -0.3")
400m @ 1:37.4 and 36 spm (pace is -2.1")
200m @ 1:37.4 and 39 spm (pace is -2.1")
What kind of recoveries?
John, this is his race plan...so no recoveries (plural). Just a big one at the end! :D

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mikvan52
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Post by mikvan52 » February 4th, 2010, 2:54 pm

Alissa wrote:
John Rupp wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:800m @ 1:41.0 and over 30 spm (higher spms than in previous years) Pace is +1.5"
600m @ 1:39.2 and 34 spm (pace is -0.3")
400m @ 1:37.4 and 36 spm (pace is -2.1")
200m @ 1:37.4 and 39 spm (pace is -2.1")
What kind of recoveries?
John, this is his race plan...so no recoveries (plural). Just a big one at the end! :D
Alissa is correct.
And, I do hope to recover. It will take a bit :lol:

This plan gets me to the finish line nearly a full 10 seconds after 6:28, BTW.
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

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bloomp
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Post by bloomp » February 4th, 2010, 2:54 pm

John Rupp wrote:
mikvan52 wrote:800m @ 1:41.0 and over 30 spm (higher spms than in previous years) Pace is +1.5"
600m @ 1:39.2 and 34 spm (pace is -0.3")
400m @ 1:37.4 and 36 spm (pace is -2.1")
200m @ 1:37.4 and 39 spm (pace is -2.1")
What kind of recoveries?
I think that's his race plan.
24, 166lbs, 5'9
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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » February 4th, 2010, 3:02 pm

Alissa wrote:John, this is his race plan...so no recoveries (plural). Just a big one at the end! :D
Ohh I see. Thanks, Alissa. :)
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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Post by ranger » February 4th, 2010, 3:06 pm

As I said, I'll post the results of 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), 1:34 @ 36 spm over the next couple of days.

I don't think it wiil be that hard for me to do at all.

If I get it done, it predicts 6:28 for Sunday.

Wish me luck!

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by ranger » February 4th, 2010, 3:30 pm

BTW, if I pull 6:28 at Cincinnati, then my plan for Boston won't be 6:28 but 6:26 (or perhaps even 6:24, if I have evidence for it, e.g., 8 x 500m @ 1:33 completed in the week between Boston and Cincinnati).

I just row flat splits.

So my plan for Boston will probably be to go 1:36 @ 34 spm until 1700m and then give my all to the end.

In my sprint to the end, I can probably raise the rate to 40 spm, whatever that comes out to in terms of pace.

I usually start my sprint for the finish when I have 300m to go.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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Post by Bob S. » February 4th, 2010, 3:32 pm

mikvan52 wrote: Coaching has really helped me and (for me) is indispensable.
I am glad that you included that qualifier. I have been coxed through a couple of 2k time trials by Xeno and through three 2K races by Rob Perrot with 2 WR results, but coxing through TTs and races doesn't exactly come under the category of coaching. We had occasional OTW coaching in 4s and 8s back in the 90s at a couple of clubs (NAC and LBRA) in SoCal, but it was sporadic and disorganized. There was never any overall training plan. I haven't had any real, long-term training coaching since 1950 and that was OTW, of course. The only erg training programs I have used were stuff from the net, like the UK Interactive Programme and a couple of others. For the most part, I have been my own coach, but, fortunately, I still retained the right feel from the old college rowing days. Then there were my LBRA buddies who complained that my erging was screwing up my sweep rowing.

I doubt if there is a rowing coach within a couple of hundred miles from here, so it is not an option.

Bob S.

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Post by kini62 » February 4th, 2010, 4:40 pm

nycbone wrote:
hjs wrote:[
If you really think that go complaining at C2, and yes it is moderated.

Bye the way, can you tell me what the "spirit" is of this forum?
That would seem intuitively obvious, but...

Yes, to learn as much as possible from the rowing/erging experience and wisdom of others. These can be positive or negative experiences and the wisdom may include reponses to claims by others (as in the case of this thread). This thread has been helpful, particularly due to the responses by NavHaz, MikVan and a few others. The careful reader (in conjunction with other reliable sources of information) should be able to distinguish between what is useful and what is not. As a novice, I've learned quite a bit from this forum and, as a result, my technique and performance have improved significantly over the past few months. The discussion about betting/gambling on performance or racing is indeed inappropriate and I have asked Concept2 to have a look.
For Christ's sake GROW UP! If you don't like it don't read it, visit another thread or forum. No one asked you to be the forum police, which incedently is the only type of forum dweller worse than a troll.
59m, 5'6" 160lbs, rowing and skiing (pseudo) on the Big Island of Hawaii.

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Post by kini62 » February 4th, 2010, 4:47 pm

peterhowd wrote:It is only free up to the point US Dept of Justice drops RICO charges on people for organized gambling. just to be blunt where nycbone was being subtle.
Sure the USDOJ is going to swoop in any time now. Shit, it takes them 5 years to investigate ''actual'' crimes let alone some blustering and posturing. You watch WAY too much TV.
59m, 5'6" 160lbs, rowing and skiing (pseudo) on the Big Island of Hawaii.

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mikvan52
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Post by mikvan52 » February 4th, 2010, 4:58 pm

Bob S. wrote:
mikvan52 wrote: Coaching has really helped me and (for me) is indispensable.

I doubt if there is a rowing coach within a couple of hundred miles from here, so it is not an option.
My erg coaching has always been an online service. I do get OTW (in person) coaching too.

So much can be done with video these days too :idea:
3 Crash-B hammers
American 60's Lwt. 2k record (6:49) •• set WRs for 60' & FM •• ~ now surpassed
repeat combined Masters Lwt & Hwt 1x National Champion E & F class
62 yrs, 160 lbs, 6' ...

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Post by lintonwilson » February 4th, 2010, 5:05 pm

Mike/Nav,,,,,Thanks for all the posts.... You offer a wealth of training knowledge and it's appreciated.... Hope to say hello the 13th....

Rich,,,,Knowing your history of precipitation aversion thought a "heads up" is in order.....Gonna rain/sleet and snow up to half a foot by late day Saturday here in central OH......As Astro might say ""Ruh-roh, Ranger!"
"Justice turns the scale, bringing to some learning through suffering" Aeschylus

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Post by Rocket Roy » February 4th, 2010, 5:13 pm

ranger wrote:As I said, I'll post the results of 8 x 500m (3:30 rest), 1:34 @ 36 spm over the next couple of days.



ranger
You always say this then mysteriously they never appear.

How about one time, just one time, you just come on here and post what you h.a.v.e a.c.t.u.a.l.l.y. DONE!!!!!
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
25 miles...55;24
10 miles...21.03
Golf best gross 78, 8 over par.

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