6:28 2K

[mikvan52]

another "bet" day shot to hell:

"Curses! Foiled again!!"

[Nosmo]

So, _I_ speculate and am therefore culpable of fantasy, lying, deception, etc., but you don't speculate and therefore are being factual, truthful, honest, etc.

What? Learn to read Rich. No where did I state a fact about what you did. I stated something about my beliefs--i.e. what i think is most likely to occur in the near future having no verifiable evidence otherwise.

I have my rowing as evidence.

But I don't have any of your evidence except two screen shots and your race results from last year. That is all I have to go on.

You have only your own ill will to back up your claim that I am lying about my evidence.

The evidence I do have is all your claims of what you would do and not do (break the WR seven time in seven races last year, row in 6:28 at home last September, post screen shots of your weight and times, etc etc etc.).
So I have a lot of evidence that you will not do what you claim you will do.

Pretty nasty stuff.

You should be ashamed.
ranger

I'm not. I wasn't being nasty, Just stating what it looks like to me. I don't wish you any ill will. None at all. I'm not involved enough to care about you for anything then entertainment.

I do wish Mike well. I've met him and raced against him. I really hope he does well and posts a time at the limits of what he is capable of. I really respect his sculling. It is really beautiful.
Given my incomplete knowledge I'd bet on him not you. Go a head prove me wrong. Row faster then last year. I won't be upset.

[Byron Drachman]

I really respect his sculling. It is really beautiful.

Agreed. Isn't it something how good scullers make it look so easy?

Byron

[mikvan52]

Onlookers here should have no fear:

Most of this is just friendly posturing.
Truth be told:
I have begged ranger to come to Boston and row (at CRASH-B)
I have yet to meet him.. It would be a dream come true.
I have (and Byron has) invited him to scull for fun.
Nav' and Sir Pirate invited him to erg in NYC.

We're all buddies .

Just like Nosmo: I wish him the best of races to his 2k capabilities.

I happen to know what those are. Some on this thread may not.


Puzzle:
Take the following digits and use each one once:
in all except the first position:
..4..5..7...8..9..0..

Put a "6" all the way on the left (the first position)

Oh, what the heck, use the 4 as many times as you want.

My guess:
It has a 6 in it.
It has a 4 in it.

There is one other digit.

( you can buy a 3 for $100,000.00 )



New subject:

Rich:

When do you start on the water this spring/summer? Are you going to commit to any 1ks OTW (rowed with others).
Why not come to Nationals in Camden NJ this August and you and I can scull in the hwt E 2x? I'll stroke you'll be bow. I'll go easy we'll row the body of the race at 28 spm and sprint the last 200m at a 34...

[steves]

I am a student of outlier performances, and I think it would be worthwhile to encourage such within our small community.
Accordingly, I propose we establish a fund to promote fabulous 2k results. We could in some joint way determine the targets by sex, weight and age group.
To start with, however, I propose we establish the Rich Cureton Challenge Prize for lightweight men in the 55 to 59 year old age bracket.
The money funded for this prize would be awarded to the first qualified competitor in a recognized C2 event who breaks 6:28.
I'll start the ball rolling by contributing $100, and I suggest that Mike van Beuren hold the funds.

Questions:
- To Mike. Can you handle the dough for all of us?
- To Ranger. Do you accept the status of eponym?

Please let us know.

[ranger]

I am a student of outlier performances, and I think it would be worthwhile to encourage such within our small community.
Accordingly, I propose we establish a fund to promote fabulous 2k results. We could in some joint way determine the targets by sex, weight and age group.
To start with, however, I propose we establish the Rich Cureton Challenge Prize for lightweight men in the 55 to 59 year old age bracket.
The money funded for this prize would be awarded to the first qualified competitor in a recognized C2 event who breaks 6:28.
I'll start the ball rolling by contributing $100, and I suggest that Mike van Beuren hold the funds.

Questions:
- To Mike. Can you handle the dough for all of us?
- To Ranger. Do you accept the status of eponym?

Please let us know.

Sure.

ranger

[ranger]

The better arrangement, however, for those who are not just posturing, is to have symmetrical and competitive bets, given that Mike and I are of similar ages and accomplishments (e.g., both hammers).

It takes a lot of effort to achieve something significant; any bets should encourage that effort.

How about this?

Mike, I'll bet you the following:

(1) $!000 that I will win the 55s lwt race at WIRC 2010, rather than you, if we both get there and get to row, money paid on the day of the row;

(2) $2000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:40 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row;

(3) $3000 that I will get to a verified public lwt 6:35 (or under) 2K before before you do, money paid on the day of the row;

(4) $4000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:30 2K (or under) before you do, money paid on the day of the row;

(5) $5000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:25 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row;

(6) $10000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:20 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row.

(7) $20000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:15 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row.

(8) $50000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:10 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row.

(9) $100000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:05 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row.

(10) $1 million that I will row a verified public lwt 6:00 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row.

All of these separate bets are for individual rows and stand even if one or more of the bets are won, including the bets won.

One prize per row.

But given many rows, prizes can be multiple.

The bet funds the prizes (from our own pockets!).

With this (much fairer) arrangement, anyone who accomplishes something significant wins some money (from the other person), the bigger the significant accomplishment the bigger the winnings.

All else equal, this is a solid bet on the relative effectiveness of training methods.

ranger

[ranger]

Rich: When do you start on the water this spring/summer?

You're not out OTW yet?

Sissy.

I've been out there for weeks already.



Toasty.

ranger

[ranger]

Why not come to Nationals in Camden NJ this August and you and I can scull in the hwt E 2x? I'll stroke you'll be bow. I'll go easy we'll row the body of the race at 28 spm and sprint the last 200m at a 34.

I am surprised that you would want a novice like me in your bow, but it would be a privilege and honor, sir.

I accept.

ranger

[kini62]

I would suggest that IF Ranger 'DNS' Rickie does actually show up AND make weight AND set a new age group record that he submit to testing for PEDs and other banned substances. He is more and more exhibiting the signs and symptoms of someone who is hitting the pipe and/or using PEDs.

[Byron Drachman]

Mike, I'll bet you the following:

(1) $!000 that I will win the 55s lwt race at WIRC 2010, rather than you, if we both get there and get to row, money paid on the day of the row;

(2) $2000 that I will row a verified public lwt 6:40 (or under) 2K before you do, money paid on the day of the row;

--snip--

I suspect Ranger would gladly collect on a bet if he could win, but he does not pay when he loses if there is a substantial amount of money involved.

Some history on Ranger's gambling history at the UK Forum:

on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:54 pm

Then you will have no problem sending Henry a check for $1000 unless you verify your weight as a lightweight in a manner suitable to Henry and post a sub 6:40 2K with verification code before the end of this month.

Indeed I will.
Just as he will have no problem sending me $3000 when I win both the bets.
We are upstanding folks.
We pay our bets, if we lose.

April 30, 2009:
Yea, time has run out..
Oh well.
Don't much feel like doing a 2K, given that I still haven't sharpened for one.
2Ks hurt pretty badly if you aren't ready for them.
Hey, hjs, any possibility of modifying our $1000 bet along the lines of our $3000 bet?
A time extension would be _greatly_ appreciated.
That might be a squarer deal, given my situation (unprepared!).
I need to get sharpened up if I want to be doing 2Ks without a lot of grief.
Training is coming along great--but slowly.
Too slowly, it appears.
One last cry for mercy!

April 30, 2009: hjs is an ogre
no sympathy
no heart

May 5, 2009: I am doing trials at the other distances this spring and summer.
If I can't reach my goals in those trials, then I'll pay up for the bet I lost.

[NavigationHazard]

If you're not familiar with the back story, Mike Van Buren did a NavHaz Godzilla-type workout the other day: repeat 1'/1' intervals, but instead of negative-splitting them all the way down like I often do, he went all out on the penultimate rep and tried to hold on on the last one.

Pete Marston (he of the Pete Plan) then decided to try this on an 8 x 500m/3:30 workout (details in his blog on the UK Forum).

Not one to back off from an implicit challenge, I had a go at out-Van Burening Pete on the 8 x 500s. My general idea was to negative-split them down from the start for as long as I could as hard as I could, and then hold on anyway for however many were left.

Results:



For the benefit of those in China and other places with image censorship, the reps went:

01] 1:29.5 r35
02] 1:29.6 r35
03] 1:29.2 r36
04] 1:29.3 r36
05] 1:29.6 r36
06] 1:33.5 r35
07] 1:33.5 r35
08] 1:33.3 r35

Averages: 1:30.9 r35.

Consider the hurt box opened in the last 100m of rep #5. Despite the near-death experience I soldiered on. I still ended up sub-1:31 for the session, not too far off my all-time PB of 1:30.4. I dunno whether I'll be able to summon up that kind of effort in Boston or not. But it's mildly comforting to know that I can still sort of get it up. The rating, I mean....

Oh, and this is what all-out 500s on 3:30 rest look like in the real world.

[ranger]

1] 1:29.5 r35
02] 1:29.6 r35
03] 1:29.2 r36
04] 1:29.3 r36
05] 1:29.6 r36
06] 1:33.5 r35
07] 1:33.5 r35
08] 1:33.3 r35

Averages: 1:30.9 r35.

Nice one, Nav.

You are pulling my targets, exactly.

8 x 500m (3:30 rest), 1:31 @ 36 spm (13 SPI)

That's rowing well for a lightweight of any age.

I have a month of sharpening ahead of me now to pull it off.

I think I will.

My preparation has been perfect.

ranger

[ranger]

Ideal sharpening going on now, given that there is still a month left in the indoor racing season.

I am getting a _hugely_ smooth and natural 1:34 @ 36 spm (11.7 SPI).

As I relax into this rate and pace, it looks as though I am going to get 500m, again and again, without my heart rate going over my anaerobic threshold.

This means I can do target, race pace 500s, 1:34 @ 36 spm (11.7 SPI), all day long--20 of them, 40 of them, 80 of them.

The workout is UT1.

Zatopek 500s here we come.

20 x 500 at race pace predicts a 2K at that race pace.

A measly 8 x 500m @ 1:34 predicts a 6:28 2K.

Great training.

Perfect.

I did 20 x 500 at 1:36 (10 SPI) in the fall of 2003 but only by cheating heavily on rate, pumping my spms to 40.

I can now do these 500s two seconds per 500 faster at 4 spm lower.

This is much more organized, much more effective rowing.

I get 1.7 more watts per stroke.

My racing stroke now has 110 newtons of peak pressure in a smooth, left-leaning haystack.

As soon as four years ago (e.g., at WIRC 2006, when PaulS tested me on the erg monitor), my racing stroke had only 90 kgs. of peak pressure.

I have learned how to use my legs.

36 spm feels _very_ comfortable now.

Not too fast at all.

I do it in my head all day long.

Before the winter racing season is over, I will race at 36 spm, as I did back in 2003.

If I do, I'll be pulling 1:34--automatically, unconsciously, inevitably.

For those unfamiliar with 36 spm, it goes like this:

WIPEOUT!!!!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtIyjdmlHCs

ranger

[ranger]

01] 1:29.5 r35
02] 1:29.6 r35
03] 1:29.2 r36
04] 1:29.3 r36
05] 1:29.6 r36
06] 1:33.5 r35
07] 1:33.5 r35
08] 1:33.3 r35

Averages: 1:30.9 r35.

It is good to have mastered half the show.

Have you mastered the rest of the show?

5K, 1:39 @ 32 spm
6K, 1:40 @ 31 spm
30min, 1:41 @ 30 spm
10Km 1:42 @ 29 spm
60min, 1:44 @ 28 spm
HM, 1:45 @ 27 spm
FM, 1:48 @ 26 spm

ranger