6:28 2K

rjw · Post by **rjw** » January 31st, 2010, 6:54 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:Let's have some Godzilla fun. I'm currently between reps #17-18 of a 20 by 500m r31/2' rest workout.

Anyone care to guess 1) my average pace; and 2) what I'll do the last one in?

Actual screenshot to follow.

1:35.2

last one in 1:28.6

NavigationHazard · Post by **NavigationHazard** » January 31st, 2010, 7:04 pm

Hang on while I upload the screenshots. 1:35.2 would be a bit fast, considering that 8 reps on 2 minutes ought to be around 2k pace at 2k rating minus 1 or minus 2....

NavigationHazard · Post by **NavigationHazard** » January 31st, 2010, 7:17 pm

1:36.3 average, as it turns out. Last one at 1:27.2 though

mikvan52 · Post by **mikvan52** » January 31st, 2010, 7:29 pm

great job! Nav.. and by the way ... Congratulations on being the only one of us who's posted 6:28 and better times on the 6:28 thread.

rjw · Post by **rjw** » January 31st, 2010, 7:30 pm

rjw wrote:
NavigationHazard wrote:Let's have some Godzilla fun. I'm currently between reps #17-18 of a 20 by 500m r31/2' rest workout.

Anyone care to guess 1) my average pace; and 2) what I'll do the last one in?

Actual screenshot to follow.
1:36.3

last one in 1:27.2

Hey - I was right on - fancy that

OK - Maybe i wasn't.

Great set there Nav

NavigationHazard · Post by **NavigationHazard** » January 31st, 2010, 7:37 pm

You were right on. Just like a good tenure-seeking economist -- if you can't alter the data to fit the prediction, rewrite the prediction to fit the data it failed to anticipate....

FWIW, I'm one of the few people on the planet daft enough actually to have done 40 x 500m. More than once, in fact. It's actually not all that hard given non-specific "paddle a 500" rests, as if you lack integrity you can take a paddle stroke every minute or so and still keep the monitor ticking over. It's a >lot< harder on (say) a fixed 2' passive rest, or alternatively something like "paddle a 500 in 2:30 or less between reps."

JohnBove · Post by **JohnBove** » January 31st, 2010, 7:50 pm

ranger wrote:The Indianapolis Male Veterans race (50+ years old) had 10 finishers, both lightweight and heavyweight, and was won by a heavyweight, Kip Nicolas, in 6:46, just the time he pulled last year.

The other times were 7:05, 7:28, 7:31, 7:34, 7:41, 7:43, 7:45, 8:07, 10:10.

The two lightweights in the race finished in 7:41 and 7:50.

Exciting stuff, no?

I am devastated that I didn't go.

I really missed the big action.

If I had gone to the regatta, I think I might have pulled a lwt 6:28.

I am 59.ranger

I thought the competition didn't matter, just the times, no? That's been your excuse for getting dusted time and again by Rocket and for not showing up to race him.

"I think I might have"? You're a repulsive loon. Don't you realize what a cartoon you are? Have you absolutely no capacity for embarrassment or shame? The answer, of course, to both questions, is "no." After the cuckoo popped out of our head on Thursday and then, after you announced your retirement from posting on Friday, here you are, back again, as if neither ever happened. You're a sorry, sad, and grotesque bit of business ...

eliotsmith · Post by **eliotsmith** » January 31st, 2010, 8:10 pm

Steve G wrote:Just to repeat my post from yesterday, Ranger true to form today methinks.

The joke is over folks.
Why don't we make a pact and ignore this buffoon from February 1st, until he actually posts a screenshot of something worthwhile or even competes again. Cant see him doing anything until he is 60, and then it will be when I am 65 etc. We have heard it all before ad infinitum.
It worked on his UK blog, he was ignored and his blog wasn't answered for months, that's why he migrated to this forum.
Thats all folks, as the cartoons say at the finale.
Over and Out.

Steve

Count me in. I agree with Kev, I feel better already!

aharmer · Post by **aharmer** » January 31st, 2010, 8:40 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:You were right on. Just like a good tenure-seeking economist -- if you can't alter the data to fit the prediction, rewrite the prediction to fit the data it failed to anticipate....

FWIW, I'm one of the few people on the planet daft enough actually to have done 40 x 500m. More than once, in fact. It's actually not all that hard given non-specific "paddle a 500" rests, as if you lack integrity you can take a paddle stroke every minute or so and still keep the monitor ticking over. It's a >lot< harder on (say) a fixed 2' passive rest, or alternatively something like "paddle a 500 in 2:30 or less between reps."

Nav, thanks for taking over this thread and posting something worthwhile we can learn from. The imaginary character from the previous 180 pages has been retired...time to move on.

My question is...if you were to do 8x500, 2'r all-out, how would the watts compare to your 20x500 watts, assuming you did the same 2'r? How about compared to your 40x500 watts?

I recently did 8x500, 2'r in 1:37.9 avg. Are you saying my current 2k should be between 1:39-1:40? Thanks in advance for any info!

NavigationHazard · Post by **NavigationHazard** » January 31st, 2010, 9:17 pm

In my experience, 8 x 500m on 2' rest can be done evenly paced/evenly rated at 2k rating a bit faster than 2k pace. If you lower the stroke rate on the 500s by 1 (or better yet 2) spm, you can end up doing them at around 2k pace on current form. If you raise the stroke rate you can do the 500s faster, but the rating may not be sustainable over 2k. In that case you won't learn a whole lot from the session.

I dunno what I could do for 8 reps flat out on 2' right now. I'd imagine about 1:32 pace if I had no rating cap, which would be ~ 450 watts. But it might be a bit faster or slower.

I'd have to go dig out the 40-rep efforts to see what I did on them. I vaguely recall at least a couple of goes at 24 strokes/minute and at least one at 28. At 24 spm I probably was around 1:40 pace/ 350 watts. Don't quote me, but at 28 spm I think I got maybe 1:38.5 pace/ 366 watts. Of course this was a couple of years ago, when I was young and foolish....

EDIT: forgot to add that it's hard to say in your case without knowing what you would rate for 2k, along with what you rated on the 500s and also how evenly you did them. If I were forced to relate them to a 2k I'd say they strongly suggest something a bit under 6:40 on current form.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » January 31st, 2010, 9:28 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:
FWIW, I'm one of the few people on the planet daft enough actually to have done 40 x 500m. More than once, in fact. It's actually not all that hard given non-specific "paddle a 500" rests, as if you lack integrity you can take a paddle stroke every minute or so and still keep the monitor ticking over. It's a >lot< harder on (say) a fixed 2' passive rest, or alternatively something like "paddle a 500 in 2:30 or less between reps."

I was joking, of course, in a recent post where I said something about you would rather do an intense 84 x 500m with short rests than a straight FM. I guess that my joke wasn't too far off the mark. You have already done about half of it. Of course, you have actually done at least one HM, as your signature shows, but I have a hunch that you preferred the 40 x 500s.

Bob S.

aharmer · Post by **aharmer** » January 31st, 2010, 10:11 pm

Nav, my 8x500 2'r in 1:37.9 was 32 spm. All 8 were done within a couple tenths of each other...planned on doing the last one very fast but barely got home in 1:38. The most recent 2k home trial following a workout was 6:51.6 at 31 spm. I'll probably trial a 2k in a week or so, I'll let you know how close your guess is:)

Joanvb · Post by **Joanvb** » January 31st, 2010, 11:48 pm

Great going, Nav. See you in a couple of weeks.

Rocket Roy · Post by **Rocket Roy** » February 1st, 2010, 12:23 am

Glad to see you alive and kicking on the us forum Joan. Have a great race in Boston, sorry i won't be there to meet you and John this year.

Roy

ranger · Post by **ranger** » February 1st, 2010, 2:23 am

In terms of gained wattage given the same effort, i.e., effectiveness and efficiency, if learning to row well is worth up to four seconds per 500m in a 2K, then it can be worth almost twice that in distance rows, given the compression in wattages as the rowing gets faster.

This will be pretty astonishing if it turns out to be right.

For instance, I used to do a 5K at 32 spm.

In fact, I rowed just about everything at 32 spm, all the way up to a FM.

Given my size and flexibility, 32 spm is a _very_ comfortable rating.

No problem at all holding it for a couple of hours.

Given a distance rate this high, the only issue, then, is stroking power and energy cost, effectiveness and efficiency.

Back when I rowed everything at 32 spm, I only pulled 10 SPI, and so was not very effective generating leverage, and not understanding the rhythm of the rowing stroke, the leverage that I _did_ muster was pretty expensive, too. I not only had poor catches; I had poor finishes and recoveries too, which really cuts into what you are able to do easily for a long time at a rate like 32 spm.

I no longer row poorly; I row well.

Now, I get good leverage, 12.5 SPI on every stroke rather than 10 SPI.

Now, I also get good finishes and recoveries.

So the energy cost of carrying that 12.5 SPI rowing well is just the same as the energy cost I used to incur carrying 10 SPI.

The consequences of this are astounding.

Just do the math.

At 32 spm, 10 SPI is 320 watts: 1:43 pace. That's my 5K pb.

But at 32 spm, 12.5 SPI is 400 watts, 1:36.

There's that seven seconds per 500m again!

I don't know folks, but when I am fully trained up for it, I think I might row 5K @ 1:36, a minute and ten seconds faster than my pb of 17:10 back in 2002-2003.

5K @ 1:36 is 16:00.

Nice!

That's almost twenty seconds better than Dan Staite's Open lwt WR of 16:18.

16:00 is just a stroke or two off of Big Bird's 40s heavyweight WR.

ranger