6:28 2K

[ranger]

For sharpening and racing, my natural stroke is now 11.7 SPI.

Roughly this:

1:37 @ 33 spm
1:36 @ 34 spm
1:35 @ 35 spm
1:34 @ 36 spm
1:33 @ 37 spm
1:32 @ 38 spm
1:31 @ 40 spm
1:30 @ 41 spm
1:29 @ 42 spm

Happy with that.

Solid stuff.

In terms of stroking power, this is pretty much the same stroke as the great Danish lightiweights--Eskild E., H. Stephansen, etc.

Eskild rowed the central 1K of his best 2Ks, 1:32 @ 38 spm.

ranger

[snowleopard]

Mike van Beuren has done a service to the community by compiling the list of outstanding performances in the 55-59 ltw men class.

It should be noted, however, that the WR for this age group is 6:37.7 and it belongs to Lyle Parker. It was rowed Dec 19, 1995, when Lyle was 56 + 6 months old . His 56th birthday was May 1. There is ample documentation of this in Australia, just different documentation. It is not recognized I would guess because of the modesty that characterizes the Australian C2 folks. I suggest it be added to Mike's list, albeit perhaps with an asterix.

Lyle lived in Adelaide and had a remarkable engine, as do Roy and Mike. He had a quite advanced approach to training that, as far as I can figure out, he invented for himself without much coaching or research. He also had a remarkable will: he did a 2k test each Sunday at 11:00am.

I believe Roy Brook rowed a witnessed 6:34+.

[ranger]

Breaking silence to provide the following stats:

Best known 2k performances 55-59 light men (C2 year by C2 year)
“best of each year”


2002 Roger Prowse 56 GBR 6:50.7 RACE
2003 Roger Prowse 58 GBR 6:41.9 IND
2004 Roger Prowse 58 GBR 6:43.3 RACE
2005 Richard White 56 FRA 6:41.0 IND
2006 Dennis Hastings 55 USA 6:40.8 RACE
2007 Roy Brook GBR 6:38.1 RACE……………………also the WR for the group
2008 Michael Van Beuren 55 USA 6:45.1 RACE
2009 Rich Cureton 58 USA 6:41.0 RACE


List sorted by time (descending)

2007 Roy Brook 6:38.1
2006 Dennis Hastings 6:40.8
2005, 2009 Richard White & Rich Cureton 6:41.0
2003 Roger Prowse 6:41.9
2004 Roger Prowse 6:43.3
2008 Michael Van Beuren 6:45.1
2002 Roger Prowse 6:50.7

Yes, so my 6:41 last year was _very_ respectable, given that I was 58, not 55, and didn't even prepare for it with hard distance rowing and sharpening.

I was just doing foundational training.

I usually get about a dozen seconds each over 2K from distance rowing and sharpening.

So it should indeed be interesting what I finally pull for 2K this year.

I have been doing distance rowing for six months or so.

I will be sharpening for the next six weeks.

ranger

[KevJGK]

So we are supposed to train without mentioning our goals?

It's good to discuss goals, but fantasies have no place on a training forum and you know your so called goals are just fantasies. I dread to think what is actually going on in your head.

[NavigationHazard]

Roy rather demolished the old WR, albeit timed on ErgMonitor rather than the PM3/4. That aside (and Roy fully understands why C2 doesn't count the row), LW record attempts outside of sanctioned competitions invariably raise weigh-in issues. I have the highest respect for Roy's personal integrity about weighing himself before that row. But sadly, personal integrity isn't the same as public verifiability....

[ranger]

So we are supposed to train without mentioning our goals?

It's good to discuss goals, but fantasies have no place on a training forum and you know your so called goals are just fantasies. I dread to think what is actually going on in your head.

If I can rate 36 spm for 2K, I will pull 6:16.

That's 11.7 SPI.

In 2003, I rated 36 spm for my 2Ks.

ranger

[ranger]

So we are supposed to train without mentioning our goals?

It's good to discuss goals, but fantasies have no place on a training forum and you know your so called goals are just fantasies. I dread to think what is actually going on in your head.

I have no evidence that my goals are fantasies, nor do you.

True:

I will need to rate 36 spm for 2K to pull 6:16.

But that seems entirely reasonable to me, given the past performances of both myself and others of comparable age and ability.

I have rated 36 spm in a 2K a dozen times or so.

Rocket Roy rates 36 spm in a 2K, too.

Paul Siebach and Graham Watt rate 36 spm.

For a lightweight, 36 spm is an entirely reasonable 2K rate.

Historically, older lightweights have had no problem getting the rate up in a 2K.

They have had problem keeping up their stroking power.

That's why I have worked on technique and stroking power (almost exclusively) for the last seven years.

Older heavyweights have had the opposite difficulty.

They have been able to keep up their stroking power.

But they have struggled with maintaining their rate.

Dick Cashin does his 2Ks at 26 spm.



Andy Ripley rated 28 spm, as I remember.

Sure, to prepare for a 2K at 36 spm., you have to do some good distance rowing, pushing the rate to 30 spm over long distances, and some good sharpening, pushing the rate up over 40 spm.

But, heck, this is what _everybody_ does to prepare for a 2K.

You can't do anything like your best 2K without preparing for it.

ranger

[hjs]

Breaking silence to provide the following stats:

Best known 2k performances 55-59 light men (C2 year by C2 year)
“best of each year”


2002 Roger Prowse 56 GBR 6:50.7 RACE
2003 Roger Prowse 58 GBR 6:41.9 IND
2004 Roger Prowse 58 GBR 6:43.3 RACE
2005 Richard White 56 FRA 6:41.0 IND
2006 Dennis Hastings 55 USA 6:40.8 RACE
2007 Roy Brook GBR 6:38.1 RACE……………………also the WR for the group
2008 Michael Van Beuren 55 USA 6:45.1 RACE
2009 Rich Cureton 58 USA 6:41.0 RACE


List sorted by time (descending)

2007 Roy Brook 6:38.1
2006 Dennis Hastings 6:40.8
2005, 2009 Richard White & Rich Cureton 6:41.0
2003 Roger Prowse 6:41.9
2004 Roger Prowse 6:43.3
2008 Michael Van Beuren 6:45.1
2002 Roger Prowse 6:50.7

Yes, so my 6:41 last year was _very_ respectable

So now 6.41 is respectable ? it's 25 seconds above your 6.16 target, If someone is so far off from there target and still happy with the result something is very wrong.
I can only erg 25 seconds above target If I chop of a leg
can you also give a list of you 2k s after 2003 ? You did around 5 a year so you at least 30/40 results.

[ranger]

I can only erg 25 seconds above target If I chop of a leg

Or just do foundational rowing, working on your weaknesses, rather than wasting your time parading your strengths, sharpening and racing to beat the band?



Idiots get what they deserve.

If you don't train to overcome your weaknesses, you never get any better.

Racing, which just parades your strengths, doesn't make you better.

ranger

[ranger]

So now 6.41 is respectable?

At 58 years old, 6:41 is pretty much WR pace for a lightweight.

At 55, the lwt WR is 6:38.

At 60, the lwt WR is 6:42.

I would say that WR pace is _always_ respectable.

Wouldn't you?

At your best, you have been, what, 30 seconds from WR pace?

If so, it's being pretty hard on yourself to bad mouth WR pace, claiming that it isn't even respectable.

If it isn't, then you're just shit in a bag, son.

ranger

[hjs]

So now 6.41 is respectable?

At 58 years old, 6:41 is pretty much WR pace for a lightweight.

At 55, the lwt WR is 6:38.

At 60, the lwt WR is 6:42.

I would say that WR pace is _always_ respectable.

Wouldn't you?

At your best, you have been, what, 30 seconds from WR pace?

If so, it's being pretty hard on yourself to bad mouth WR pace, claiming that it isn't even respectable.

If it isn't, then you're just shit in a bag, son.

ranger

No one says that 6.41 is not respectable for you, remember that was almost spot one what I predicted you would do.
But is,t not about pace, it's al relative. Every pace can be respectable, but if you row 25 seconds above you target then you row is not respectable or your goal is luducrus. You can,t have it both ways. It's the one or the other.

I am not talented enough and too weak to row WR's. I rowed 6.14 on three rowes a week, erging in the winter, not erging in the summer. But doing other stuff besides that. Maybe you can call that crosstraining.
For a cripple 6.1 guy maybe not respectable but it has to do

[ranger]

For the most part, the energy cost of a stroke of a certain power (effectiveness) depends on how much you train with it--and in what contexts (efficiency).

The ability to row a 2K at high rate, such as 36 spm, and a high stroking power, such as 11.7 SPI, depends on (1) the energy cost of this powerful stroke and (2) your aerobic capacity.

I _never_ train at much less that 11.7 SPI.

I row about 20K a day.

For several years, I rowed at 13-16 SPI.

I have an unusually high aerobic capacity for my age (59).

My resting HR is 40 spm.

My maxHR is 190 spm.

ranger

[ranger]

No one says that 6.41 is not respectable

Ah.

So I am glad I have everyone's respect.



The rest is gravy.

Since my lwt pb, rowing as a novice, not even knowing how to row, is 6:28, it would be odd in the extreme if my goal now were to row 6:41.

For seven years, I have labored to overcome my major novice weakness: rowing badly.

I now row well.

So, my goal is now (quite a bit) below 6:28.

Makes sense, no?

I used to pull 10.7 SPI @ 36 spm in a 2K.

After a _ton_ of work on technique and stroking power, I now pull 11.7 SPI, one SPI more.

So now I am going to train the rate up and see what I can do with it over 2K.

1 SPI at 36 spm is worth 36 watts, right around three seconds per 500m.

ranger

[ranger]

I am not talented enough and to weak to row WR's. I rowed 6.14 on three rowes a week, erging in the winter, not erging in the summer. But doing other stuff besides that.

Limited talent and casual commitment produce modest results.

Nothing surprising about that.

ranger

[ranger]

Roy rather demolished the old WR, albeit timed on ErgMonitor rather than the PM3/4. That aside (and Roy fully understands why C2 doesn't count the row), LW record attempts outside of sanctioned competitions invariably raise weigh-in issues. I have the highest respect for Roy's personal integrity about weighing himself before that row. But sadly, personal integrity isn't the same as public verifiability....

There are no problems with C2's requirements.

The problems are with Roy's performances

Your training determines what you can do for 2K.

So, if Roy is capable of a lwt 6:34, he should do it, or something very close to it, every time he races, in training or at race venues.

But, as turns out, he consistently does nothing of the sort.

His normal 2K is usually 10 seconds slower, 6:44 not 6:34, no matter what weight he is rowing at.

Why is this?

When I am fully trained, I have 2Ks, 6:27.5, 6:28, 6:28.5, 6:29, 6:29.7, 6:30, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:32, 6:33, and so forth.

Roy never races a solid 2K unless he is fully trained.

But if Roy is capable of 6:34, even if this is his pb, he should have 2Ks 6:34.5, 6:35, 6:.35.5, 6:36, 6:36, 6:36, 6:36.5, 6:37. 6:37, 6:37, 6:37, etc.

He has nothing of the sort.

At race venues, he has one 2k under 6:40.

Most of the rest are 6:42.-6:44.

ranger