6:28 2K

[ranger]

nd no one but ranger has said that my maxHR was 230 bpm in college.

Sorry if I have misquoted you.

I asked you once about your maxHR when you were younger, and as I remember, this is what you said in reply.

Am I wrong in this?

What was you maxHR in college?

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

Of course performance across the entire spectrum of distances is going to vary. That's primarily because the necessary energy is going to come from different blends of sources depending on what you're attempting.

As a general rule, the shorter the distance the greater the percentage of the energy you use will come from so-called non-aerobic pathways. The longer the distance the more it will be from the so-called aerobic pathway.

There's always going to be variation between individuals. But again as a general proposition, research has shown that something on the order of 70-80% of the energy used by trained elite athletes in a competition 2k is going to be 'aerobic.' The rest will come from non-aerobic pathways.

People who talk about "balance" between rowing power and speed are really talking about this ~70/30 to ~80/20 blend of energy utilization. The naive forget that it's a best-practice range optimized for 2k competition. If what you want to do is specialize in 500m sprints, whether on or off the water, you'd be silly to allocate your training time towards achieving (say) a 75/25 ratio over 2k. Since the energy requirements for that 500 are likely to be (I'm throwing this out as a guesstimate) 15/85 aerobic/non-aerobic, common sense suggests a different training strategy. Alternatively, a full marathon is going to be almost entirely 'aerobic.' If you want to specialize in marathons, you'd be equally silly to do more than nod occasionally towards training your non-aerobic pathways.

No one would expect Usain Bolt to beat Haile Gebreselassie over 42000m. No one would expect Haile Gebreselassie to beat Usain Bolt over 100m. And no one except a complete muppet would try to argue that Bolt's training isn't balanced because Gebreselassie would win over 2000m.

The same is true in rowing. The claim that 'the best sprinters are also the best marathoners' is utterly specious (two minutes' examination of the C2 record book will demonstrate so). And the claim that there's some optimum 'balance' that applies to all rowers over the entire range of distances/durations is equally mullet-headed. As the Brits would say, horses for courses.

[ranger]

Let me suggest that going to an exercise lab and testing for VO2 max would be the preferred measure of aerobic capacity. (cost $100 - $150)

I don't care about what your VO2max is now.

The issue is what your VO2max is now compared to what it was when you were in college.

ranger

[ranger]

Look at people’s signatures on this and the UK forum.

What is done in the general rowing population is irrelevant to what happens at the highest levels in rowing.

The two are incomparable.

ranger

[ranger]

We do not become faster with age.

Sure we do, in a sport as technical as rowing, and for quite a while, if we are beginners at 50.

ranger

[hjs]

We do not become faster with age.

Sure we do, in a sport as technical as rowing, and for quite a while, if we are beginners at 50.

ranger

Rowing yes, erging on the other hand is easy not much technique needed at all.
Look at Mike, he kept his fitness on the erg but got faster otw

[ranger]

Cool.

Iditirod huskies get their VO2max up to 250 ml/kg./min.

ranger

[rjw]

snip.....

Heck, I haven't even been doing distance rowing, until the last six months.

OK - I'll bite.

What have you done in the last 6 months in any of the distance categories that would indicate a 6:28 let alone a 6:16.

.....wait for it.....

None of them!

As I am sure if you had they would have been ranked.

[ranger]

We do not become faster with age.

Sure we do, in a sport as technical as rowing, and for quite a while, if we are beginners at 50.

ranger

Rowing yes, erging on the other hand is easy not much technique needed at all.
Look at Mike, he kept his fitness on the erg but got faster otw

"Technique" on the erg means something different from "technique" OTW, although there is an overap, too.

"Technique" on the erg means things like length, leverage, timing, posture, sequencing, rhythmicity, ratio, etc., so that power is maximized, given the effort.

"Technique" OTW involves these things, too, but in the context of moving a boat, which also includes blade work, balance, smooth shifts of momentum at catch and finish, steering, adjustments for current, waves, and wind, and so forth.

As a result, sure, you can get better at moving a boat, while you are still puzzled about how to get better at powering an erg.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Let's follow-up on part of what Nav' is saying:

Partially:
The 2k erg combines the need for high VO2 max and anaerobic capabilities.
Optimal training should recognize this.

I agree and want to emphasize that, as there are athletes with different strengths, each should concentrate on varied approaches to match their profile.

I still wonder what Rich meant when he said "it was too late for me" as my "aerobic capacity" has dropped (in his estimation) so precipitously.
Perhaps he continues in the vein of "idle chit chat" and insincere derision for fun (?)

BTW: I didn't know about VO2 max testing until I was out of college. Exercise Phys. testing has become lots more common place in the intervening 4 decades (!)

I remain serious about Rich (ranger) and I getting our VO2 max'es tested together.
Let's "start (our) engines" and see what we have! It does have some bearing on 2k erg potential.
To the point of this thread: It would be interesting to have a chart of many athletes to show what the minimum VO2 max was for anyone who ever rowed a 6:28 2k on the erg
I think some readers might be interested, don't you Rich?... although this thread is beginning to get tiresome and redundant. I suspect many have given up on it as just being another case of old guys posturing to defend against the standard ego issues of the aged. I've attributed that flaw to myself from time to time.

[ranger]

snip.....

Heck, I haven't even been doing distance rowing, until the last six months.

OK - I'll bite.

What have you done in the last 6 months in any of the distance categories that would indicate a 6:28 let alone a 6:16.

.....wait for it.....

None of them!

As I am sure if you had they would have been ranked.

Training is not a performance.

Training is an opportunity to get better.

Racing is not training.

Race all you want.

Race everything.

It doesn't make you better.

ranger

[hjs]

snip.....

Heck, I haven't even been doing distance rowing, until the last six months.

OK - I'll bite.

What have you done in the last 6 months in any of the distance categories that would indicate a 6:28 let alone a 6:16.

.....wait for it.....

None of them!

As I am sure if you had they would have been ranked.

Training is not a performance.

Training is an opportunity to get better.

Racing is not training.

Race all you want.

Race everything.

It doesn't make you better.

ranger

No atlete races, every olympic atlete just races one every four years. hahahahahah The only train, never do any contest, do, do worldcups, no word championships nothing, just out of the blue the are the best in the world

[KevJGK]

... although this thread is beginning to get tiresome and redundant. I suspect many have given up on it as just being another case of old guys posturing to defend against the standard ego issues of the aged.

Not me Mike.

I settle in front of my screen to catch up at least twice a day with a fresh pot of coffee and some ginger biscuits. It's one of my favourite reads of the day.

[mikvan52]

Training is not a performance.

Training is an opportunity to get better.

Racing is not training.

Race all you want.

Race everything.

It doesn't make you better.

"We haf' vays of making you talk! As you say, Herr Professor, ze erg is a truth machine!"

[chgoss]

snip.....

Heck, I haven't even been doing distance rowing, until the last six months.

OK - I'll bite.

What have you done in the last 6 months in any of the distance categories that would indicate a 6:28 let alone a 6:16.

.....wait for it.....

None of them!

As I am sure if you had they would have been ranked.

Training is not a performance.

Training is an opportunity to get better.

Racing is not training.

Race all you want.

Race everything.

It doesn't make you better.

ranger

Code: Select all

Possible answer options for Ranger when asked to report results:
1 it has been reported (2003 WR, since then he as raced more than anyone else, since then he has only been getting better, he has reported his 4 years of training to get to a 13 SPI, no one has ever gotten better) 

2 it shouldnt be reported ("Work on general fitness, technique, stroking power, and endurance doesn't have much to do with the monitor (keeping track of distance covered over time) at all") 

3 it will be reported (he just finished distance rowing, he is now in the sharpening phase and will be posting screen shots of his sessions starting next Monday) 

4 ignored

you went with #2, good call..