Solved my back problem big time

[rlk]

I've spoken with some people who are afraid to row because they think it will hurt their back. Well, obviously it can if it's done incorrectly, but my personal experience is that rowing more frequently (along with other exercise) and at a harder pace has largely solved my back problems.

I've always occasionally had back problems -- muscle tightness and pain that resolved itself in a week or so. A couple of years ago, though, I had a really severe attack of back spasms that necessitated two trips to the ER, one in an ambulance. This turned out to be back spasms with no evident cause -- they would have done an MRI if it didn't improve, but it did. My PT taught me some core exercises and suggested doing abs on a regular basis.

Initially, I pushed too hard and reinjured it trying to get back down to 1:50 too soon, but less severely. So I was more careful the next time to keep my speed within planned limits. At the time, I normally did ~7700 in 30 minutes, so holding my pace down to 2:20 or so and doing 5 or 10 minutes wasn't much fun.

I've been a lot more organized about my exercise over the past few years -- 5 days of workouts in the gym at work each week, with usually 30 minutes or so of hard cardio followed by either abs class or weights, and stretches. For cardio, I usually row twice a week, do a bike twice a week, and do the arc trainer once a week. The calorie counts I get vary, but on the bike it's usually between 550 and 580 in 30 minutes, on the rower it's usually 590~610, and on the arc trainer it's usually 700~750 (which seems excessively high). During major challenges, of course, I'm pretty much doing all rowing for the cardio.

I've found that the key is high intensity. I used to walk a good bit -- averaging 5 miles/day, and 10 miles a day on weekends wasn't unusual. That, however, did not strengthen my back. The 30 minutes or so at high intensity, combined with the core strength and weights, does. I've still had a few stiff back problems, but they're less severe and resolve more quickly.

Oh, and my rowing strength and stamina is way up. About 5 or 7 years ago I broke 8000 for the first time, but never did again. At that time, I was typically doing about 7800 in 30 minutes, sometimes in the 7900's. I didn't break 8K again until last summer -- but since then I've averaged 1:52.4 for all of my rowing, including longer ones during the challenges, and last fall I only averaged about 1:55 during the challenge. These days anything less than 8150 is noticeably subpar and I often break 8200 -- I'm about 300 meters, maybe 5 seconds pace faster than I used to be (one of these days I should break 8300). And today I broke 16K for an hour, and then did abs class (I was really wiped out!).

Funny thing is, though, my short distance times haven't really improved. My 2K has only gone from 6:53.5 to 6:47.5, although my recovery time is a lot faster. But I've always been better at endurance than raw power. I win the 10 minute competitions at work; recently I've been pulling 2900 or so. One other person does 2800, nobody else comes close to even 2700

[dr. espo]

wow, those are impressive times for this newbie...just got my c2 a few weeks ago and am really impressed with it. Had to give up the Nordic Track, loved it, but my lower back suffered greatly...stenosis problems didn't help.

Anyway, I tried my nephews c2 and it felt good, so I took the plunge...right now my lower back is not stressed at all, I've been doing mostly 5k's every about 5X's a week. Have my time down to 21 minutes so no body is calling me speedy, and 20 minutes looks like a dream right now, but I have to get into the habit of doing longer distances, I am stuck on the 5K! I think if I start to focus on longer distance and not the speed for a 5K I'll gradually improve.

I'm glad to hear you back is doing better, while each persons pain may be in a different location and from a different cause, it's still encouraging to hear.

Have you considered using slides with your c2? I understand that they may help the back strain even more, although I see that is somewhat controversial on the forums here...I may try it though.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Best of luck,

Mike

[rlk]

I'm seldom having back problems any more, and when I do they resolve quickly once I'm able to start going hard again. So I haven't considered using slides. I'm using the machine in the gym at work, so it might be hard for me to set up slides even if I wanted to.

[mccartjt]

RLK

I've been been working on my left knee that had a patello femoral joint issue for close on a year now. It is much improved, however I must have had bad form and I suspect I've given myself a bulging / slightly herniated disc in my lower lumbar region thru bad rowing technique. I'd done 450,000 meters since December 2008 & I've been forced (due to my back condtion) to lay off rowing since late May / June 2009. I should have an idea tomorrow what has been going on with my back as soon as my physician has seen my MRI's. I didn't realize how super important form really is in rowing technique. If my back will allow me to get back on my C2, I'll be taking some lessons from Xeno ~ The Iron oarsman in the not too distant future.

In the mean time I'm doing some cycling to get my cardiovascular system up to snuff. If I have any news I'll post to this forum to help the poor back sufferers of us all!

JM

[Rockin Roland]

As I've mentioned several times before on this forum, grounded ergs are notorious for causing back problems. But don't expect to hear anything from C2 about the issue. It's in their best interests to leave that issue alone.

You should really be using Slides to avoid the problem. If you use a gym erg and have back problems then just simply stop using the erg and try other equipment.

In 2-3 months time there will be other alternatives available to the C2 erg which have a dynamic motion (but far better than a C2 on slides). I won't harp on about the Rowperfect machine because people on this forum are probably sick of me raving on about it.

However, there is another erg being manufactured in the USA called the Oartec Slider. I tried it last week for the first time and reckon it runs rings around anything C2 has got. It's calibrated to give the same scores as a C2. It's much more comfortable and easier on your back than a C2 erg. Has the slides already incorporated into the design. And best of all, it's CHEAPER than a C2 erg. It's everything a C2 erg should have been but never was. You'll probably hear more about it later when it officially gets released.

In the meantime do lots of walking because that's very good for relieving back problems.

[hugh]

how long did you row slow ? or how did you know when you could start going harder?

[rlk]

Interestingly, I tweaked my back a bit last Friday morning while getting dressed. That followed the most sedentary day I've had in months (sitting in an all-day meeting followed by dinner, without even an opportunity for a mile walk with the dogs). Evil timing, when I'm trying to pile up meters for the FRC, hit 300K, and win our fitness center (the latter both for the first time).

So what has happened? I've been rowing somewhat more slowly than I normally do since then (1:59 average on Friday, 1:56 yesterday and today, with my last 10 minutes at 1:54 -- I would typically be averaging about 1:53 for the meters I'm doing). I've had little pain, but a fair amount of lower body stiffness, but rowing hasn't bothered my back at all and the activity loosens me up (particularly today, when I picked up the pace a bit). I only did 12K last Friday, but 17.7 yesterday and 13.5 today, so it's not affecting my endurance at all.

Before the past few years, I know that this would have been worse. Usually it would take about a week to recover, with a fair bit of pain for the first 5 days.

I'm focusing on my form, trying to keep my back straight with a good, even pace and smooth stroke. Since I'm used to a much faster pace, I can do in the 1:55 range with a good leg and arm stroke and not using my torso very much, and I'm not getting winded at the end of my 50-60 minutes. The slightly faster pace I did in the latter part of today's session felt like it helped a lot in loosening me up.

The other thing I've been doing a lot is go for 11K (41:30~43:00), stop for a while to do something else (weights, core strength class) and hop back on for another 4K or so. That final 4K (or 6700, yesterday) feels much easier.

[rlk]

Oh, and the way I decide how hard to row is by feel -- if it feels smooth and doesn't increase the pain, it's a good pace. That's what my physical therapist told me 2 years ago -- work as hard as I can without increasing the pain. So I skip a few core exercises (like leg lifts) because they actually do hurt a bit.

[johnlvs2run]

there is another erg being manufactured in the USA called the Oartec Slider. I tried it last week for the first time and reckon it runs rings around anything C2 has got. It's calibrated to give the same scores as a C2. It's much more comfortable and easier on your back than a C2 erg. Has the slides already incorporated into the design. And best of all, it's CHEAPER than a C2 erg. It's everything a C2 erg should have been but never was. You'll probably hear more about it later when it officially gets released.

Thanks for posting about the Oartek Slider, Roland.
The Oartec looks great, quite a bit like the hypothetical modelJ that I posted about a few years ago.
Rowing Illustrated has a few photos.

[Bob S.]

Thanks for posting about the Oartek Slider, Roland.
The Oartec looks great, quite a bit like the hypothetical modelJ that I posted about a few years ago.
Rowing Illustrated has a few photos.

I have heard that there will be a demo at the HOTC this weekend, so we may be hearing more about it soon. The HOTC is possibly the best attended rowing event in the U.S. each year.

Bob S.

[rlk]

I personally prefer a machine that is optimized for working out vs. being the most accurate simulation of rowing on water. I don't have any real interest in rowing on the water (I don't have very good balance, for one -- this summer my wife and I tried canoeing on a lake in Maine, and while I had no problem supplying power I constantly felt like I would capsize the canoe), but I want to have the best workout I can get. And despite my poor balance, I never feel unstable on the C2.

I've seen people "jump" the C2 by simply yanking too hard. I don't care, because that's not a realistic workout and I can smoke them anyhow for any real distance. I'm still recovering a bit on my back, but it was feeling stronger and looser today. I did 13,500, focusing on smooth technique, starting around 1:57 and gradually ramping the pace up to about 1:53 over the final 10 minutes (with the last 500 being a cooldown), rested for maybe 5 minutes, and then another 10 minutes fairly hard (1:45~1:48 over the last 5 minutes), and it felt good. Jumping the machine at 1:20 or so bears no resemblance to any kind of real cardio (or even anaerobic) workout. But side to side? Steady as a rock.

I would think slides would take a lot of getting used to.

[djh]

I would think slides would take a lot of getting used to.

Just got slides (a Christmas present to myself ) and I love them. They're fun, my times seem a bit faster (new PBs never hurt) and I think my form is better. I feel like I'm more successful at following the common adivice about pushing the erg away with the legs rather than pulling on the chain. My body is stationary and I feel like I'm kicking the rowing machine away with every stroke.

I don't have back issues, but my Dad does and I bought slides to try and avoid such problems going forward. Early take: I'm rowing harder and enjoying it more, so back benefits may be slight for me.

Downside: Factoring in shipping and customs, they're not cheap.

[TomR]

For back problems, work on your glutes and hamstrings. The problem could be the hips, but it shows up in the back.

Lack of mobility and strength in the hips will require the back to do the bending and the handling of the load. Hence: back strain, pain.

Check out Mike Boyle's material.