6:28 2K

[Byron Drachman]

Leadville has explained to you why a high maximum heart rate is not necessarily an indicator of high performance. This is not the first time this has been explained to you.

From The Flight of the Phoenix:

Heinrich Dorfmann: Mr. Towns, you behave as if stupidity were a virtue. Why is that?

To paraphrase: Ranger, you behave as if stupidity were a virtue. Why is that?

[Rockin Roland]

Why do teams use the erg for selection, etc.?

ranger

No they don't, not anymore.

Elite crew selection in Australia and certain parts of the USA and Europe now make erg time trials on SLIDES compulsory. Stationary erg scores are no longer accepted. The rest of the world will follow in good time.

Furthermore, erg scores now only make up 10% of the crew selection criteria. The rest is made up of time trials in small boats and championship regatta results.

So dream on Ranger, a dinosaur like you is destined for the erg scrap heap.

[chgoss]

I have been doing distance rowing for several months.

And 'll try to get as many distance trials and other sharpening sessions in as I can over the next month.

I still dont understand why you are abandoning your distance rowing prior to finishing it?

Dont forget, Ranger isnt saying he's currently sharpening.. He's in stage #2, and has repeatedly stated that he will not proceed to step #3 until he does one of:
1) a 6:28 in home trial
2) 17,307 meters in 60 minutes (1:44 pace).
3) 10k in under 34 minutes (1:42 pace)

Yes, exactly.

Now you are getting it.

When I am done with distance trials, I will do a 2K at 1:37, which is my 2K target - 3 (and 2K pb).

Then I'll sharpen.

Then I'll race.

ranger

[ranger]

Leadville has explained to you why a high maximum heart rate is not necessarily an indicator of high performance. This is not the first time this has been explained to you.

From The Flight of the Phoenix:

Heinrich Dorfmann: Mr. Towns, you behave as if stupidity were a virtue. Why is that?

To paraphrase: Ranger, you behave as if stupidity were a virtue. Why is that?

I didn't say that a high maxHR was necessarily an indicator of high performance.

I said that it was in my case.

My resting HR is 40, sometimes even below that.

Correlations between %HRR and pace are indeed a standard way of calculating his performance.

I now row 1:47 with a HR of around 150 bpm, 75% HRR.

My anaerobic threshold is 172 bpm.

My maxHR is 190 bpm.

Even though Mike VB has a maxHR of 163 bpm, we row the same paces at the same HRs.

What Mike rows at 90% HRR, I row at 75% HRR.

This has a direct bearing on times achieved over set distances.

Races.

ranger

[ranger]

Why do teams use the erg for selection, etc.?

ranger

No they don't, not anymore.

Elite crew selection in Australia and certain parts of the USA and Europe now make erg time trials on SLIDES compulsory. Stationary erg scores are no longer accepted. The rest of the world will follow in good time.

Furthermore, erg scores now only make up 10% of the crew selection criteria. The rest is made up of time trials in small boats and championship regatta results.

So dream on Ranger, a dinosaur like you is destined for the erg scrap heap.

60-year-olds are not elite crews.

Most elite rowers have somewhat similar physical capacities.

Not so for older folks.

In their physical capacities, many people decline massively with age, especially in the senior and veteran ranks.

Among 60-year-olds, losses with age in things that the erg measures--strength, quickness, aerobic capacity, flexibility, etc.--can differ wildly from rower to rower.

So, for 60-year-olds, the erg might have considerably more value as a diagnostic for OTW performance than it does for 20-year-olds.

Some 60-year-olds lose half their youthful strength. Some lose none at all.

Some 60-year-olds lose one or even two training bands of their youthful aerobic capacity; some lose very little.

Some 60-year-olds retain much of the youthful quickness, coordination, and flexibility. Some stiffen up like a board and become slow as molasses.

No elite young rowers are weak, stiff, and out of breath before they even take a stroke.

Many 60-year-old rowers are.

The erg measures these things.

With a decline in physical capacities, the OTW rowing of the same rower rowing with the same technique can decline massively with time.

This massive decline will be paralleled exactly on the erg.

On the other hand, it seems to me that nothing at all prevents a 60-year-old from developing excellent technique, in fact, technique that is good as rowers who have been rowing well for decades.

For most people, age doesn't interfere with skill acquisition as much as it does with maximal physical performance.

ranger

[ranger]

Some people get blood to their muscles by pushing out large amounts every time their hearts contract, he said. Others accomplish the same thing by contracting their hearts at fast rates. As a result, Dr. Hagerman said, he has seen Olympic rowers in their 20's with maximum heart rates of 220. And he has seen others on the same team and with the same ability, but who get blood to their tissues by pumping hard, with maximum rates of just 160."

Of course.

But because of these cardiovascular differences, those different sorts of people don't row the same pace at the same HRs.

Mike VB and I do.

In a 60min row, Mike tops out at 1:51. Why? Because that's what he rows at his anaerobic threshold, top-end UT1. Given a maxHR of 163 bpm, if his anaaerobic threshold is at about the same %HRR as mine (87%), then he rows 1:51 with a HR of about 146.

So do I, but for me, that is 70% HRR.

87% HRR for me is 172 bpm, and at 172 bpm, I am going 1:44 pace when I am rowing, not 1:51.

So I will row 60min at 1:44, not 1:51.

If Mike could row for an hour with a HR of 172, he would also go 1:44.

But he can't.

He has lost his youthful ability to rev his heart that high.

As a pretty elite young marathon runner, Mike had a maxHR of 230 bpm.

So with a max HR now of 163 bpm, he can't run a 2:20 FM, either.

He has lost the aerobic capacity he needs to do it.

ranger

[ranger]

you, ranger, probably have a rabbit heart with a small left ventricle. Because your heart can't pump a lot of blood with each contraction (low stroke volume) it has to beat faster.

How is that possible, if I have a resting pulse of 40 bpm?

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, I grew up with the person who pioneered the study of stroke volume (and other aspects of the dynamics of the heart) in physical performance.

He regularly took heartometer readings of my heart.

My heart is healthy and normal, with just the high stroke volume that most athletes, as opposed to more sedentary people, exhibit.

ranger

[snowleopard]

BTW, I grew up with the person who pioneered the study of stroke volume (and other aspects of the dynamics of the heart) in physical performance.

Yeah, and and and and my brother's bigger than you're brother and if you bash me again I'm gonna tell him to sort you out, so there.

Yah! Boo! Sucks to you!

[kini62]

How is that possible, if I have a resting pulse of 40 bpm?

ranger

Because you don't. Nor do you have a max HR of 190. Perhaps in your little world you do, but in the real world of hard facts you don't.

Nor will you row anywhere close to 6:16 2K.

Nor will you make LWT.

You say you have friends and family but all any one has ever seen is you in your dungeon workout room, all alone. Just you and your video camera.

Kind of sad really. Having to make up a whole world in which to pretend to have the things that the rest of us enjoy on a daily basis.

I for one don't believe you're lying at least in the sense that normal people perceive what lying is.

For compulsive liars, such as yourself, you've been telling the same lies so long they become the truth in your little make believe world. The world where you are a great athlete and know all there is to know about everything and have done all there is to do and have a family that cares about you and friends that share your "accomplishments".

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Please get help for yours before it's too late. There is still hope for you. People with worse personality disorders than yours have been helped with intense therapy and medication.

Happy new year wherever you are, planet, world, dungeon, psych ward etc...

Gene

[ranger]

How is that possible, if I have a resting pulse of 40 bpm?

ranger

Because you don't. Nor do you have a max HR of 190. Perhaps in your little world you do, but in the real world of hard facts you don't.

Yes, I do, in the real world of hard facts.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, I grew up with the person who pioneered the study of stroke volume (and other aspects of the dynamics of the heart) in physical performance.

Yeah, and and and and my brother's bigger than you're brother and if you bash me again I'm gonna tell him to sort you out, so there.

Yah! Boo! Sucks to you!

Yea, _now_ you're getting into the spirit of things!

BTW, my brother is "big" in the study of physical performance, too. He has headed up the kinesiology department at the University of Georgia for the last 30 years. He followed right in my father's footsteps. He is one of the distinguished physical educators of our time.

ranger

[ranger]

you say you have friends and family but all any one has ever seen is you in your dungeon workout room, all alone. Just you and your video camera

This is a training forum for rowing, not facebook.

If you equate life with the chatter about rowing here on the C2 forum, you are _really_ off the deep end.

ranger

[KevJGK]

This is a training forum for rowing, not facebook.

Yes, most of this forum is about training.

This particular thread however is not concerned with training; it is purely and simply about you. It does have a few things in common with Facebook.

[drjay9051]

BTW, my brother is "big" in the study of physical performance, too. He has headed up the kinesiology department at the University of Georgia for the last 30 years. He followed right in my father's footsteps. He is one of the distinguished physical educators of our time.

Ranger is partially correct. Kirk Cureton is the head of the Kinesiology at Ga. However only since 2005. He has been with the Department of Kinesiology since 1976.
In any event I as a new erger am getting a kick out of this thread. I suppose a competition will solve it all. In Ranger's defense, he has held a record or two has he not?? In addition what would you all say if in fact he did what he claims he will do? I have no clue if his goals are at all acheivable but I cannot wait for whatever race he enters.

J