6:28 2K

[hjs]

But I can tell you he won,t be at Boston this year.

Doesn't he want to defend his WR from his major competition?

ranger

Been there done that, he is after bigger things now He is now going for the TtheF.

Contador watch out !

[chgoss]

to date all I can see is you've been able to turn in some pretty impressive results on the erg

Impressive 2K times?

No, actually, I haven't tried yet--fully trained and rowing well.

I will try for the first time this winter.

No, you havent finished distance rowing yet.. you will be racing this season on the basis of foundational rowing only.. Uncompleted distance rowing, and therefore by defination, no sharpening could have occured.

[mikvan52]

Time runs out for E, F, G (55+ years and beyond) scullers

Your pat generalizations are funny.

Rules are made to be broken.

It happens all the time.

...

I suppose the only question is: How good can I get?

Rich:

Indeed!

"Rules are broken all the time"... but not every time.

Here's a link for you and others who might be interested:

Click here for Buzz Congram's site.

"I suppose (a) question is": will ranger ever compete on the water?


I've found that the competition in the 50-70 age groups are much deeper on the water than they are on the erg.

Rich: You may discover this too... perhaps to your chagrin, perhaps to your satisfaction.

[Rocket Roy]

___Contador watch out_____

Not quite that good

But I will be concentrating on the cycling TT WC's for the time being.

My aim is to win both the WC's in the year 2012 when I'll be 60.

I'm starting to lay the foundation for that now by doing lot's of long hard distance erging just a few times a week on 200 drag and no slower than 2.03 pace.

Currently aiming for a 29.2 mph average for the 20 km's of the WC's in Austria. It will be hard to do.

The main problem with that, is that the race is held on a closed course, these are called dead course's because one get's no help from passing car's and truck's. It has to be all your own work, oh and there is a hill in the middle of it.

[mikvan52]

Rich:
Here's someone in your age group who you may be familiar with who will not be waiting for you to figure out that coaching might help at the Head of the Charles, "Danish lightweight stroke" not withstanding.

Jim turned 60 for this years HOCR and sculls just about every year in addition to doing a fabulous job with the UMass crew.

Click here

I still maintain that it might be well advised to put the auto-didact stuff on the shelf when it comes to going up against such a rower.

Two others to scout: John Flory & Richard Anderson.

TTFN

[mikvan52]

I'm starting to lay the foundation .. now by doing lot's of long hard distance erging just a few times a week on 200 drag and no slower than 2.03 pace.

Currently aiming for a 29.2 mph average for the 20 km's of the WC's in Austria. It will be hard to do.

Best of successes to you Roy!

[ranger]

I've found that the competition in the 50-70 age groups are much deeper on the water than they are on the erg

There are younger ergers your size who outrow you by almost a minute over 2K.

There are younger scullers your size who outrow you by almost a minute over 2K OTW.

Why is this?

Is it because they have better technique than you?

ranger

[Rocket Roy]

I've found that the competition in the 50-70 age groups are much deeper on the water than they are on the erg

There are younger ergers your size who outrow you by almost a minute over 2K.

There are younger scullers your size who outrow you by almost a minute over 2K OTW.

Why is this?

Is it because they have better technique than you?

ranger

Just a shot in the dark but could it be that they are 30 year's younger.

[ranger]

Just a shot in the dark but could it be that they are 30 year's younger.

Sure, I would guess that, too.

Younger guys are usually stronger.

Younger guys are usually quicker.

Younger guys usually have more aerobic capacity.

You know, those things that make you fast on the erg.

But Mike claims that it is technique that makes you fast OTW, not being stronger, quicker, or having more aerobic capacity.

And that's the puzzling thing to me.

Why does youth help with OTW technique?

In order to have good technique OTW, is it better to have less experience so that you don't muck up the good technique you had when you were younger by thinking about it too much?



Does someone like Spousta row three minutes slower over the HOCR course now that he is 60 compared to when he was 30 because he now has too much experience with technique and therefore has mucked himself up by thinking about it too much?

Or is he just weaker, slower, and less capable aerobically, because he is old?

If Spousta could still row sub-6 on the erg, would he row three minutes better on the HOCR course, even though he is 60, or would his mucked up technique, which he has thought about too much, because he now has too much experience, prevent him from making full use of his physical capacities?

Is there something I am not getting here?

Is Mike really trying to say that physical capacity, e.g., your time on the erg, is totally irrelevant to rowing OTW?

If so, why does someone like Spousta slow down OTW as he ages and slows down on the erg?

As his physical capacities decline and therefore slow him down on the erg, do his technical capacities decline and therefore slow him down OTW?

Why does Rob Waddell have an Olympic gold in the 1x and the Open heavyweight WR on the erg?

Why do teams use the erg for selection, etc.?

ranger

[mikvan52]

I've found that the competition in the 50-70 age groups are much deeper on the water than they are on the erg

There are younger ergers your size who outrow you by almost a minute over 2K.

There are younger scullers your size who outrow you by almost a minute over 2K OTW.

Why is this?

Is it because they have better technique than you?

ranger

Interesting shift in topic: from YOU to me

I do not pretend to say (and was not saying previously) that I was faster than young scullers.
I am an older sculler.
It may be of interest to you that you are too

Interesting that you have a view on my 2k racing in a single scull, as I've never done any

I have this overwhelming feeling that I don't think there's much value in attempting to stay on subject with you.

I was talking about the need for people to have coaching. Specifically, those who consider themselves "autodidacts".

What would you prefer to discuss?

That with a certain number of DLS's at such and such spi you'll be able to beat the Jim Dietz's of the sculling world eventually?

That with (the same whatever) you crush the WR on the erg for 55-59 lwts?

That older people who "learn to row well" "naturally" get faster and faster than current WR holders on the erg? (That one really caters to the dreamer in all of us!)

That you can train your max HR to be higher? (Scientifically proven wrong)

That unicorns make fine household pets? (But of course, Ruprect!)

I think I'll return to the peace and quiet of cyberspace!

No more posts from me for now.

Hope you can make lwt at the WIRC this year.

[ranger]

What would you prefer to discuss?

My maxHR is 190.

Your maxHR is 163.

I would guess that this accounts for the differences in our veteran lwt 2K times on the erg, whatever that difference might have been in the past and whatever that difference might be in the future.

As I explained earlier, I think you are more interested in SPI than I am--and for good reason.

OTW, you try as hard as you can to force down the rate and therefore increase your DPS/SPI.

Why?

Because of your poor aerobic capacity.

If you keep your technique steady, lifting the rate taxes aerobic capacity.

For those who are similar in size, increasing SPI/DPS, if done in a natural way through long training, just taxes technique and skeletal-muscular capacities.

Clearly, your technique is great.

If you could rate 30 spm at the HOCR, you'd win.

If you could rate 32 spm in a 5K on the erg, you'd pull 17:00 rather than 17:50.

But you can't lift the rate, while holding your technique steady.

Why?

Poor aerobic capacity.

I couldn't row anywhere very fast on the erg, either, if I had a maxHR of only 163 bpm.

For me, that's just middlin' UT1.

I do it every day.

ranger

[Rocket Roy]

That unicorns make fine household pets? (But of course, Ruprect!)


Hope you can make lwt at the WIRC this year.

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels???

[mikvan52]

That unicorns make fine household pets? (But of course, Ruprect!)


Hope you can make lwt at the WIRC this year.

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels???

omg, we all love him!

The perfect antidote to this thread

Click

here

[mikvan52]

Yes, and not just some (one) thing either.

Why do teams use the erg for selection, etc.?

Ever hear of seat racing and time trials OTW and NSRs (national selection regattas)?

I suppose,too, they'd choose those with the highest max HRs too over those with the fastest time trials ?

How many hoops does the rowing community have to jump through to convince you of your misconceptions?

"Meinem Gott, we better get you to a cemetery right away"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MXU3J6Qbs

[leadville]

What would you prefer to discuss?

My maxHR is 190.

Your maxHR is 163.

I would guess that this accounts for the differences in our veteran lwt 2K times on the erg, whatever that difference might have been in the past and whatever that difference might be in the future.

Ranger - No, it doesn't. Your guess is flat out wrong. If you spent a little more time actually reading on the subject of exercise physiology instead of spouting your completely wrong, baseless, autodidactically-developed misconceptions about fitness, and training, and 'rowing well' you would know this.

Perhaps you'd have found this quote from Fritz Hagerman: "The heart rate is probably the least important variable in comparing athletes..."

"Dr. Fritz Hagerman, an exercise physiologist at Ohio University, said he had learned from more than three decades of studying world class rowers that the whole idea of a formula to predict an individual's maximum heart rate was ludicrous. Even sillier, he said, is the common notion that the heart rate is an indication of fitness.

Some people get blood to their muscles by pushing out large amounts every time their hearts contract, he said. Others accomplish the same thing by contracting their hearts at fast rates. As a result, Dr. Hagerman said, he has seen Olympic rowers in their 20's with maximum heart rates of 220. And he has seen others on the same team and with the same ability, but who get blood to their tissues by pumping hard, with maximum rates of just 160."

[source NYTimes 4/24/2001]

you, ranger, probably have a rabbit heart with a small left ventricle. Because your heart can't pump a lot of blood with each contraction (low stroke volume) it has to beat faster.

And no, resting hr CANNOT be used to predict stroke volume; when you asked me to tell you your stroke volume based on your hr you indicated just how clueless you are. You don't know a dam' thing about training or sculling well.

Your ignorance combined with lousy technique combined with arrogant refusal to learn from others ensures your OTW performance will be laughable. You? race the head of the charles? HA!

Mike - methinks Ruprecht is feeling insulted!