Question about the Pete Plan

[army padre]

I'm a 48-year-old Army Chaplain, 5'6", 157lbs and have been rowing for about 6 months. I've just started using the Pete Plan, which calls for "steady, distance rowing" three times a week with an average 22-25 SPM. I'm sure this is "operator error" on my part, but that feels extremely slow! My normal training 10K time is 45 minutes (PR is 43:17). Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated here at Fort Benning, GA!

[ErgCalc]

The point is mainly to train the aerobic system. You're judging the workout by the time it takes to complete, but some workouts are done better slower than faster. The lower SPM forces you to make longer, harder strokes - depending on whether you're at the lower end or the higher end of the range, it'll develop more strength per stroke, or better develop your aerobic fitness.

There are more PB's to be had than time-to-completion alone; number of strokes-per-distance is one too. Low rates/ long strokes will lower the amount of strokes it takes to complete. To illustrate, a 10K at 45 minutes with a spm of 18 takes 810 total strokes; with a spm fo 28 it would take 1260 strokes. At SPM 19, you'd produce 7.5 watts per stroke, while at SPM 28, you'd produce 5.1 watts per stroke.

22-25 is a nice number in the middle - it'll require some effort, but not as much overall effort as racing it out, and not as much effort-per-stroke as the real low stroke rates.

[army padre]

Thank you "Erg Calc!"

[nycbone]

I have the opposite 'problem' with the steady distance portion of the Pete Plan. My current pace is ~2:12/500m. That's about 10 seconds slower (as Pete recommends) than my current endurance interval pace, so that's my target for now. That translates to a constant 19 SPM for me, which I find quite comfortable in terms of my technique (emulating Xeno as best as I can) and time to complete the recovery at that pace. I am generating more power per stroke (as ergcalc calculates), which is also more satisfying. I've tried to bring it up to 22 SPM as Pete also recommends, but it doesn't feel quite right at that pace and I feel like I need to slow down, SPM-wise.

I bump it up to 22-23 SPM for the hard distance and max out at 26-27 for the speed intervals. All subject to change as I improve.

[snowleopard]

I'm a 48-year-old Army Chaplain, 5'6", 157lbs and have been rowing for about 6 months. I've just started using the Pete Plan, which calls for "steady, distance rowing" three times a week with an average 22-25 SPM. I'm sure this is "operator error" on my part, but that feels extremely slow! My normal training 10K time is 45 minutes (PR is 43:17). Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated here at Fort Benning, GA!

If you mean that 22-25 spm is slow you are confusing rate with pace. You can row fast at slow rate; you can row slow at high rate. Rowing fast at slow rate is better than rowing slow at high rate.

People tend to row longer pieces at low rate because it's less taxing on the CV system. The recovery part of the stroke takes longer at low rate so you get more rest.

Pace should always increase as the stroke rate rises.

[army padre]

Thanks Snow Leopard! Let me see if I understand your response correctly: A "normal" SPM range for me for a 10K is 33-36, (2:12 to 2:15/500m). Does that mean my strokes aren't powerful or dynamic enough because my time ranges from 43-47 minutes as opposed to the below 40 minute studs that post here? Thanks again for the help!

[aharmer]

Thanks Snow Leopard! Let me see if I understand your response correctly: A "normal" SPM range for me for a 10K is 33-36, (2:12 to 2:15/500m). Does that mean my strokes aren't powerful or dynamic enough because my time ranges from 43-47 minutes as opposed to the below 40 minute studs that post here? Thanks again for the help!

Army, I have similar questions. For some reason the whole stroke rate / pace relationship is not an easy one for me to understand. For what it's worth, when I row 10k it's about 41 minutes at a rate of 19-20 spm. I read a lot of conflicting information about what rates should be used when so I hope a lot of people chime in and help you out. Good luck!

By the way, if you have access to a video camera, post a video of your stroke and you'll get a lot of great advice that will help you develop a more powerful stroke.

[Cyclist2]

There are lots of people on this forum that have studied the SPM/pace/drag factor "equation" pretty thoroughly, they might post here on all that. You can search the archives for many discussions on all that.

Here's my take. Once you get the technique figured out (the C2 video on their website is a very good one; http://www.concept2.com/us/training/technique.asp), then you can vary all the other things all over the place depending on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are struggling with technique, then it won't matter about the numbers - the stroke has to feel natural and comfortable first. Generally, very high ratings (30+) and slow splits (2:10+) indicate a possible technique problem, unless you are trying to do that for a particular reason.

For example, my 10K steady state workout is drag factor about 130, pace about 2:05 and stroke rate about 27. That is what feels comfortable for breathing and for my body if I'm looking for an aerobic workout. If I want intervals or am going for PRs at some distance, things change. My lower back keeps me from doing high drag factor or very low SPM workouts, but other than that I vary everything, mix and match.

Have fun with it, don't overanalyze it, it will all come together with practice.

[ErgCalc]

There's no correct rating for a distance. It depends on what you're trying to achieve.

If you're trying to get stronger, go for a low rate, and pull hard each stroke.

If you're working on conditioning, go for a mix of medium rate/medium pace and low rate/hard strokes. The Pete plan differs from the Wolverine plan in this respect - the Wolverine plan has more workouts that feature low rating (16,18,20 spm) than the Pete plan.

A typical 40-60 minute piece for most training plans is meant to train the aerobic system. For good effect, you don't want to work TOO hard; that's why the paces are typically 10-15 secs slower than a 2K-pace.

A 33-36 rate for a 10K is way too high - it's a typical rate for a 2K, which is only a fifth of a 10K. And a 2:12 pace isn't really that fast. It would indicate to me that you're not making a full stroke - hence, your stroke is shorter / lighter than it should be. That leads to high rates but slower paces.

41 minutes for a 10K at 19-20 spm seems much more reasonable. Because your SPM is lower, the amount of work you do per stroke is higher. So, if you finish in 41 minutes, you'd be much faster if you'd jack up the stroke rate.

Again, rates on the lower end of the scale (16,18,20) get you stronger; rates in the medium end of the scale help you condition; and rates at the higher end of the scale (28+) are used for races, or racing practice. In order to train rowing fast, most training programs do interval training, short bursts of fast rows. Typical ones would be 4 x 1000m, 8-10x 500m, 10x1' hard, 1' slow, etc. Interval stuff trains your (an)aerobic systems too.

I tend to think as rate as a gear in a car. Low gear, high RPM: lots of power. High gear, low RPM: efficient. High gear, high RPM: fast.

Someone once explained it as follows: imagine you have a bicycle, you put it upside down, so you can spin the wheel. Now, to get it moving, you use powerful, slow motions. But as the wheel keeps spinning, you're pace picks up, but also the speed with which you move your hand over the wheel; while you use much less power.

Say, your pace is 2:10 for 500m. That means, you'd move a boat over 500m in 2:10. I'd give person A 10 strokes to do it, person B 30 strokes. Who needs to cover more distance PER stroke? Person A, right? So if your PACE stays the same, and you have a LOWER spm, you're working harder per stroke.

Reverse is true too: if you bring up your SPM, your pace should DROP. Because now you're taking more strokes per 500m.

[Nosmo]

I don't know any experienced rower who will normally row a 10K workout above 30 strokes per minute, and certainly not at a 2:12 pace. You are moving your body up and down the slide very rapidly, which means a large percentage of your power output is not going into the fly wheel. This is very common for novice rowers. I've had big strong body builders and obvious athletes sit on an erg next to me at a gym and row at 36-40 spm while I row next to them 20 seconds faster at 16-18, dispite being obviously weaker.

Best is to video tape yourself so we can give you some pointers. Look at the technique videos and read the various threads where people are asking for advice. If you concentrate on technique your time will drop rapidly.

Generally the optimal rate for a 10K will likely be in the range of 20-26 spm for workouts, and a bit higher for PB attempts. But to do this you need good technique. Stroke rating will depend on personal preference, body type, individual talents, and very importantly training. If you do a lot of low stroke rate work you will have an easier time at lower ratings. If you do a lot of higher rate work you will likely want to rate higher. My optimal rating for a 10K over the years has varied from about 24 to 28 spm depending on how I've been training.

[army padre]

Thanks for all of the great input! I will put it into practice tomorrow morning with a Pete Plan 10K Steady Distance row. The growth of ERG training here at Fort Benning has been phenomenal in the last six months--our two larger gyms have 22 Concept 2 Rowers between them, and the number of Soldiers using them increases every day! Take care and God bless!!

[Bob S.]

I'm a 48-year-old Army Chaplain, 5'6", 157lbs and have been rowing for about 6 months. I've just started using the Pete Plan, which calls for "steady, distance rowing" three times a week with an average 22-25 SPM. I'm sure this is "operator error" on my part, but that feels extremely slow! My normal training 10K time is 45 minutes (PR is 43:17). Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated here at Fort Benning, GA!

Padre,

I recently addressed this issue on another thread, so I decided to quote some excerpts from that message:

For rowing, "fast" can have two very different meanings. You are using it to mean a high stroke rate and this is a common usage for the word in reference to using an indoor rower. On the water, fast refers to the speed of the boat in the water. The indoor rower is obviously not going anywhere, but the indoor rowing equivalent of fast-on-the-water is judged by the pace, i.e. the time per 500 meters. The lower the pace, the faster the rower is. The pace can vary from over 3:00 for sedentary beginners to under 1:30 for the top rowers.

There is some correlation of high rate and low pace, but it is limited and the optimum rate for any particular pace is dependent on individual differences in physiology. Shorter people, and especially people with short limbs would usually find that their stroke an any particular pace would have a higher optimum rate than those who are taller and/or have longer limbs

The key to achieving a high work output at a low stroke rate is in driving are hard as possible with your legs and relaxing with a slow recovery. You don’t want to rush back up the slide.

I hope that this helps to clarify the issue.

By the way, I am pleased to see someone else on the forum at this time using the Pete Plan. I just started it (or at least a simplified version of it) recently after completing a 64 workout Interactive Programme (sic) from the UK C2 site. I have used the same simplified PP in the past and have been happy with it. I don't really do it at the recommended 6 workouts a week. At my age, I need to stick to alternate workout days, so I just do the same sequence but take a day off every other day. Actually, the simplified plan which I got off the Internet quite some time ago doesn't specify what stroke rate to use. But, based on my own experience, I have been using 20 spm for the 8km and 15km pieces. For the first workout, which was 8 X 500m, I used 30 spm for the first 7 and 34 spm for the last one.

Bob S.

[badocter]

There is a Pete Plan thread on th UK forum ( concept2.co.uk/forum ) and Pete tends to post there. If you want additional background material, I suggest you consider reading the Wolverine Plan ( from which the Pete Plan is largely derived ) -- be warned that the ammount of reading is not small

[rk10007]

I am new to Concept 2, and was introduced to the Pete Plan by a cousin/erg rower. I had the same dilemma as army padre. My splits were way off of my cousin's numbers. I then realized the problem. I was rowing on a Concept2 Dynamic rower, and my cousin was on a static C2. The differences in the stroke rates and distance rowed per stroke are dramatic, as can be seen in this very scientific survey I found on-line
- http://www.jssm.org/vol10/n2/4/v10n2-4text.php, the results of which the researcher summarizes as follows:
KEY POINTS
• When rowing at a constant power output, all rowers used higher stroke rates and lower stroke forces on the Concept 2 Dynamic ergometer as compared to the Concept 2 Stationary ergometer.
• When rowing at a constant power output, cardiopulmonary demand was higher for all rowers, as measured by heart rate, on the Concept 2 Dynamic ergometer as compared to the Concept 2 Stationary ergometer.
• When rowing at a constant power output, efficiency was lower for male rowers on the Concept 2 Dynamic ergometer as compared to the Concept 2 Stationary ergometer.

So, Army, I'm wondering, which machine are you using, Dynamic or Static? If the former, then I think we need to develop a Pete Plan at rates that are suitable for the Dynamic Rower. Looking forward to your response.