Mid Weight Category?

TabbRows · Post by **TabbRows** » December 22nd, 2009, 11:56 am

There was some recent chatter on the UK boards about the interest in a mid weight category for C2 ranking. That discussion focused primarily on male rowers who are a bit too heavy for lightweight but might not be up to pulling with the 220 #+ guys. Suggested ranges were 75kgs to 84kgs (165- 185 #s). Perhaps women rankings could be 61.5-68.5 (135-151).

Just curious in what this board might think of the idea, pro and con.

Granted the C2 weight adjsutment calculator can be used to see how you mught fare in an 8 with other rowers, but doesn't give you any idea as to how you might compare to others near your weight.

badocter · Post by **badocter** » December 22nd, 2009, 2:35 pm

One of the "against" comments I agree with is that it would make many of the groups too small at all but the national meets like BIRC and Crash-B -- its not satisfying to get a medal for just showing up. If I compete in Austin as planned, there will probably only be 4 or 5 other guys in my category (masters M40-49, appears to be combined HWT and LWT) base on the 2009 results.

It increases the logistical demand of weigh-ins because a much larger number of compeitors would have to do them. I am in the middle asit were, competed at BIRC in 2008 at 178 pounds. If I really wanted to, I could get down to 6% BF and get to LWT, -OR-, I could get on serious weight training program and bulk up to 200+. Most of the other guys in the middle can make the same choice...we simply choose not to.

Tinus · Post by **Tinus** » December 23rd, 2009, 10:46 am

The 75-84 category would target people with of weight of about 80-89. At the lighter end of this group people would be less competitive anyway (or not compete at all) so it is probably not much of a reduction of competitiveness in the old classic categories.

Only in those categories which have few people to compete there might seemingly be less competitiveness due to this extra weight category which lowers the amount of competitors. However, a decreasing number of competitors is not much of a decrease in competitiveness if the people who leave a category are less competitive (or didn't compete at all). It doesn't matter if you compete with a lot a few strong people or with a few strong people and some extra cannon fodder (the latter only makes it seem more impressive).

For indoor rowing there seems to be large enough performance difference based on weight. Ergo, keeping the number of weight categories low does not improve competitiveness either as the people at the boundaries of those few categories don't improve the competitiveness within the category much.

I would also vote for a <65kg category.

TabbRows · Post by **TabbRows** » December 23rd, 2009, 10:47 am

BD, you make a good point regarding races. But what about the everyday C2 Rankings? Would it make sense there? Just too much clutter/confusion? Or simply noone pays attention to these unless they're in the top 10?

Don't forget to drive over to Houston and get your Christmas tamales from Geraldo's. Great reward for finishing the Holiday Challenge. Good rowing in Austin.

badocter · Post by **badocter** » December 23rd, 2009, 1:22 pm

On the C2 rankings it would be nice if the data entered for each piece included the current weight of the individual rather than just H/L classification. Then you could slice and dice the data anyway you want down to 1 kilo increments - just like you can already do with respect to age and region.

The really big comps could probably support a third weight category, just like they already support narrower age categories (most small comps I would be in 40-49's, but at BIRC it is 40-44's for instance). Worth noting that not everyone always takes advantage of the categories that presently exist:

Bangers wrote:
plummy wrote:Bangers is a 70-74 LWT surely or has he been over doing the pies?? It does say HWT on the C2 site though!!
Plummy
No Dave I haven't been stuffing pies down. Stan has also made the same inference regarding my diet
I still actually weigh 73kg, but I decided to enter the HWT's for several reasons, (not necessarily listed in order of importance) and they are:
a) I haven't got to worry about stripping down to my underpants in a public place at a weigh-in .
b) I can eat and, very importantly, drink as much as I like in the morning before the race .
c) There are more people entered in this class ( I was getting tired of racing in one, two and three man events) {|=
d) I have personal reasons why I want to race a guy from Finland

I believe that Roger won that HWT race

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » December 25th, 2009, 10:01 am

Tinus wrote:
I would also vote for a <65kg category.

Hear, hear!

Any potential Middleweight category should take from both the lwt and Hwt categories. That is, 70-80kg. or 65-85kg, or some such. I believe that OTW lwt is 70kg, right? Nothing wrong with bringing erging in line with that.

I know the logic behind letting lwts carry a few extra pounds during the winter, but maybe if thay had to keep the weight off all year round they would be less likely to develop the physical problems associated with crash dieting. Or maybe not. But I'd be happy with a 70kg limit.

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » December 25th, 2009, 11:12 am

I would like to see a super-lightweight category, personally.

badocter · Post by **badocter** » December 25th, 2009, 1:49 pm

bloomp wrote:I would like to see a super-lightweight category, personally.

Your wish is granted !!! Some comps already have coxswain races

Sorry, but I could not resist

NavigationHazard · Post by **NavigationHazard** » December 27th, 2009, 3:01 pm

Yankeerunner wrote: (snip)
I believe that OTW lwt is 70kg, right? Nothing wrong with bringing erging in line with that.
(snip)

Actually, FISA Rules of Racing #24 specifies LW thusly: Lightweights shall be classified as follows:

The average weight of a men’s crew (excluding coxswain) shall not exceed 70 kg. No individual male rower shall weigh more than 72.5 kg. A male single sculler shall not weigh more than 72.5 kg. For women the average weight of a crew (excluding coxswain) shall not exceed 57 kg. No individual female rower shall weigh more than 59 kg. A female single sculler shall not weigh more than 59 kg.

US Rowing specifies LW somewhat differently:

4-106 Lightweights. A lightweight crew is one that complies with the requirements below. An open event is one that is not a lightweight event. (a) Men: A men’s lightweight crew shall average no more than 155 lbs. per rower, and no individual rower shall weigh more than 160 lbs. The coxswain shall not be counted for purposes of this rule. A male single sculler (1x) shall not weigh more than 160 lbs. A Junior men’s lightweight crew is one in which no individual rower weighs more than 155 lbs. A men’s masters lightweight crew is one in which no individual rower weighs more than 160 lbs. (b) Women: A women’s lightweight crew, including a single scull (1x), shall have no rower who weighs more than 130 lbs. The coxswain shall be not be counted for purposes of this rule.

[Editor’s Note: Please note that rules relating to USRowing National Team Trials regattas and regattas governed by FISA, the International Rowing Federation, may vary; refer to Rule 6-203.]

160 lbs = 72.6 kgs, 155 lbs = 70.3 kgs, 130 lbs = 59 kgs.

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » December 27th, 2009, 3:38 pm

badocter wrote:
bloomp wrote:I would like to see a super-lightweight category, personally.
Your wish is granted !!! Some comps already have coxswain races

Sorry, but I could not resist

Too bad I've never seen one for OTW. I was considering trying to make weight at 130 for crash-B though...