6:28 2K

[philrow]

Say what face to face?

And I would think that those posters as they degenerate - as I agree, they may - would eventually become so disinterested as to totally disregard any posts, rather than continue with increasingly abusive yet ultimately futile posts of their own.

[ranger]

At WIRC 2009, no 60s lwt pulled 1:45 for 2K.

I doubt any 60s lwt averaged 20K per day on an erg for 10 consecutive years either.

Go figure.

True.

You get what you pay for.

Go figure.

In a sport such as rowing, training is not irrelevant.

Or do you think it is?

Do you think that the bigger and better accomplishment in rowing is to do little and achieve much?

ranger

[KevJGK]

Say what face to face?

And I would think that those posters as they degenerate - as I agree, they may - would eventually become so disinterested as to totally disregard any posts, rather than continue with increasingly abusive yet ultimately futile posts of their own.

I was referring to the stuff you wrote in your earlier response.

With most people I would become disinterested, but there is something about rangers posts that keeps me interested. I know his claims of a 6:16 2K are pure fantasy and I am 90% sure he realises that himself. But it is very clever the way he keeps the story going. He has never admitted he is kidding us or himself so the saga will continue for a long time. Ranger is very careful not to put an exact timetable on anything which enables him to live out his fantasy effectively indefinitely. And of course there is always that incredibly infinitesimally small chance that he may be for real and he will beat his PB although he will of course never reach his stated goals.

[KevJGK]

At WIRC 2009, no 60s lwt pulled 1:45 for 2K.

I doubt any 60s lwt averaged 20K per day on an erg for 10 consecutive years either.

Go figure.

True.

You get what you pay for.

Go figure.

In a sport such as rowing, training is not irrelevant.

Or do you think it is?

Do you think that the bigger and better accomplishment in rowing is to do little and achieve much?

ranger

Quite the opposite. See if you can re read what I wrote with an open mind and take it as an explanation rather than an attack?

[ranger]

I doubt any 60s lwt averaged 20K per day on an erg for 10 consecutive years either.

Go figure.

True.

You get what you pay for.

Go figure.

In a sport such as rowing, training is not irrelevant.

Or do you think it is?

Do you think that the bigger and better accomplishment in rowing is to do little and achieve much?

ranger

Quite the opposite. See if you can re read what I wrote with an open mind and take it as an explanation rather than an attack?

You now expect me to interpret ambiguous posts from you as understanding and supportive?

Ah.

O.K.

I like support.

Thatks for the nice thougts.

What else would explain why certain old men row much better than other old men but more and better training?

By the age of 60, "talent" isn't much of an issue anymore.

Many former Olympic rowers are just mediocre veteran ergers.

They are indistinguishable from any other Joe pulling the handle.

Yes, the discussion here is about training--what sort and how much.

BTW, you might be a little simplistic in your assumption that more is better, though.

At 60, it is quite a trick to do more in a productive way. Recovery is slower. Distractions are are more pressing. Injury, staleness, and sickness are more probable as a response to extremely hard work. Motivation is often not very high. Rewards are small, Life experiences of various sorts (injuries, illnesses, etc.) often get in the way. Nutrition and rehydration are often more difficult. For lightweights, making weight is more difficult and therefore a distraction. And so forth.

As an older rower, you don't just work more and therefore do better--and that's it.

The trick is learning how to work more in a consistently productive and satisfying way.

I think that is one of my big achievements.

Sure, if you can work hard for four hours a day when you are 60 years old, especially if you do such work for a prolonged period of time like 10 years, you will row faster than someone who only worked a half hour a day over those ten years.

Duh.

ranger

[ranger]

BTW, my distance rowing is coming along beautifully.

I now have my HR up into the 160s, pushing up to 172 bpm, my anaerobic threshold.

Better yet, it appears that I have to row exactly 10 MPS (1:43 @ 29 spm, 11 SPI) in order to keep my HR up that high for prolonged periods.

Perfect.

It looks as though, at some point, I am going to row 1:43 @ 29 spm for 60min.

I can row for an hour at my anaerobic threshold.

I suspect that I rated around 29 spm in my 60min pb row back in 2003, when I pulled 1:48.

That's 9.58 SPI, just about what other 50s lwts pull when they race 60min..

Now, I will rate the same but end up 5 seconds per 500m faster.

in 2003, I didn't know how to row.

I was wretchedly ineffective and inefficient, pulling 9.58 SPI.

I now row well, pulling 11 SPI.

ranger

[KevJGK]

Yes, the discussion here is about training--what sort and how much.

No it isn't. Nobody can evaluate your training because you do not report it openly and honestly. Your fault, nobody elses.

By the way, I think that the bigger and better accomplishment in rowing is to strike a great balance between doing little and achieving much? There is a law of diminishing returns in most things and you may be just slightly past optimum.

[chgoss]

Which team are you batting for, Mr. Corinthians? Try reading two chapters back.

? not sure what that means...

[ranger]

Yes, the discussion here is about training--what sort and how much.

No it isn't. Nobody can evaluate your training because you do not report it openly and honestly. Your fault, nobody elses.

By the way, I think that the bigger and better accomplishment in rowing is to strike a great balance between doing little and achieving much? There is a law of diminishing returns in most things and you may be just slightly past optimum.

This morning:

90min erg, 90min bike ((24.9 MPH)

ranger

[ranger]

there is a law of diminishing returns in most things

Sure, but I am nowhere near that.

In terms of quantity, I am just doing about what Caviston did in 1997-2002, when he trained himself to row 6:18 and set the 40s lwt WR.

No big deal.

ranger

P.S. Classes are now over.

Yea!

Now, I can double the size of my workouts. No need to go off and teach classes for the next month.

[KevJGK]

In terms of quantity, I am just doing about what Caviston did in 1997-2002, when he trained himself to row 6:18.

P.S. Classes are now over.

You may be doing a similar quantity to MC but from what you let on there is no similarity whatsoever to your regime?

Classes being over with your Christmas break to look forward to must be wonderful. I hope you have a fabulous break.

Best of luck with your training.

Sincerely

[ranger]

You may be doing a similar quantity to MC but from what you let on there is no similarity whatsoever to your regime?

Yes, I agree.

It is not just important how much you do.

It is also important what you do.

That's why I'll row 6:16 at 60 but Mike was only able to row 6:18 at 40.

6:18 at 40 is the equivalent of 6:38 at 60.

Last year, at 47, Mike pulled 6:36.

ranger

[ranger]

obody can evaluate your training because you do not report it openly and honestly.

Not true at all.

My major innovations in terms of training were my RWBs routines, which I did for about five years and described in great detail, all along the way.

The response by the forum was not that you folks didn't know what I was doing but that you thought that what I was doing was useless.

I suppose we'll soon see, won't we?

Rowing with breaks is easy to describe and do.

It is just about taking good strokes, rowing well, rather than rowing "pieces" over set distances at set paces, regardless of how badly you row.

The quantity of rowing is pretty much the same, about 20K a day.

At full slide, rowing well for lightweights is 13 SPI; rowing well for heavyweights is 16 SPI.

ranger

[ranger]

Best of luck with your training.

Thanks, Kev.

Best of luck to you, too.

Sounds as though you had a _very_ good year this year and are looking forward to even a better one next year.

Merry Christmas!

ranger

[Rocket Roy]

I take a small exception to him (Ranger) coming on here and telling the world that my WR is very poor and weak. And how he will destroy it within weeks if not days etc etc. Then making all kinds of excuses for not doing so, whilst still saying the Record is pathetic.

I think the best thing for him to have done would be to have broken the record then told everyone how crap it was. And I probably would have agreed with him if he had done that.