Legs

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 25th, 2009, 6:13 am

I have been at weight since the middle of September.

I will stay at weight until March.

I don't have any weight to lose at all.

The extensive cross-training does not just burn calories to reduce weight, although it does that as well.

It aids recovery.

It makes you tougher.

It improves physiological efficiency.

It encourages relaxation.

It makes you more patient and confident.

For someone my age, it is transformative, rejuvenating.

It prevents illness, injury, staleness, and discouragement, the major end-games of all training.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 25th, 2009, 7:13 am

At their peak, the best lightweights, such as Eskild E., pull 18K/1:40 for 60min.

Therefore, they pull around 6:00/1:30 for 2K.

If I pull 1:44 @ 27 spm (11.5 SPI) for 60min, I'll pull 1:34/6:16 for 2K.

As the Interactive Plan claims, 1:44 is top-end/threshold UT1 for a 6:16/1:34 2K.

The Interactive Plan's table of rates and paces is right on, although (being a lightweight) I will row 1:44 @ 27 spm not 1:44 @ 24 spm.

For me, in terms of rate, top-end UT1 is 27 spm, not 24 spm.

Top-end AT for me is 32 spm, not 28 spm.

ranger

whp4 · Post by **whp4** » November 26th, 2009, 1:29 am

ranger wrote:At their peak, the best lightweights, such as Eskild E., pull 18K/1:40 for 60min.

Therefore, they pull around 6:00/1:30 for 2K.

If I pull 1:44 @ 27 spm (11.5 SPI) for 60min, I'll pull 1:34/6:16 for 2K.

Well, if you buy into the "60 minutes is done at 2k+10" argument, sure, a 1:44 for 60 minutes would suggest the potential for a 1:34 for a little over 10% of that. But so what? You are never going to row 60 minutes at 1:44 at any stroke rate unless you use your typical "Just Row" session to spread the work out over several hours. You couldn't do it at your peak in 2003 and you certainly aren't capable of doing it now that you are older, weaker, and less fit.

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 26th, 2009, 4:27 am

whp4 wrote:
ranger wrote:At their peak, the best lightweights, such as Eskild E., pull 18K/1:40 for 60min.

Therefore, they pull around 6:00/1:30 for 2K.

If I pull 1:44 @ 27 spm (11.5 SPI) for 60min, I'll pull 1:34/6:16 for 2K.
Well, if you buy into the "60 minutes is done at 2k+10" argument, sure, a 1:44 for 60 minutes would suggest the potential for a 1:34 for a little over 10% of that. But so what? You are never going to row 60 minutes at 1:44 at any stroke rate unless you use your typical "Just Row" session to spread the work out over several hours. You couldn't do it at your peak in 2003 and you certainly aren't capable of doing it now that you are older, weaker, and less fit.

We'll see, I guess.

My pb is 1:48.

I think I'll now rate 28 spm for 60min, perhaps even 30 spm.

If so, I'll go at least 1:44.

In distance rowing, it is a wonderful goal to try to rate 30 spm in all your training.

That's what I am converging on now.

When I first took up rowing, I rowed everything at about 32 spm, even a FM.

To change speeds, I just pulled harder (or not as hard).

If you rate 30 spm in all of your distance rowing, and leave foundational rowing behind entirely, it sure becomes easy to sharpen and race.

No trudging at low rates.

Your stroke is already light and lively.

As PaulS suggest, if you did your technical homework in your foundational rowing and are now rowing well, this distance rowing at a lively rate will be in and around 10 MPS.

I like 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI) or 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI).

I suspect that when Eskild E. does 18K/1:40 for 60min, he rows right at 10 MPS and 30 spm.

11.7 SPI

ranger

snowleopard · Post by **snowleopard** » November 26th, 2009, 4:34 am

ranger wrote:I think I'll now rate 28 spm for 60min, perhaps even 30 spm.

If so, I'll go at least 1:44.

You might go 1:44 at rate 30, but you won't go 1:44 at rate 30 for an hour. You might last 'til the 10 minute mark but that's about it.

ranger wrote:That's what I am converging on.

Are you schizophrenic as well?

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 26th, 2009, 4:38 am

whp4 wrote:You couldn't do it at your peak in 2003

True, I couldn't do 1:44 for 60min back in 2003.

Just my poiint.

I was too ineffective and inefficient technically.

No longer.

I now row welll (while myy fitness is pretty much the same).

It will be interesting to see how learning to row has affected my 60min row, when I get around to racing it.

As I have said for years now, I think that learning to row is worth about 4 seconds per 500m, across the board.

In 2003, I did 9K at 1:45.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 26th, 2009, 4:42 am

snowleopard wrote:You might go 1:44 at rate 30

Yep.

When I race 60min, that might indeed be the goal.

Trade some rate for pace.

Keep it light and lively.

"Frothing"

After all of my rowing at high stroking powers, 10 SPI feels like lily-dippin', barely pullin'

ranger

whp4 · Post by **whp4** » November 26th, 2009, 5:24 pm

ranger wrote:
whp4 wrote:You couldn't do it at your peak in 2003
True, I couldn't do 1:44 for 60min back in 2003.

And now you think you can summon the extra 12% wattage. Riiight...

As I have said for years now, I think that learning to row is worth about 4 seconds per 500m, across the board.

All you've done is say it, there's been no demonstration...or maybe you still haven't learned to row?

In 2003, I did 9K at 1:45.

Yeah, sure you did...that would have been a world record for a lightweight of any age, better even than the heavyweight record for all but 1 or 2 weight classes and you expect us to believe that you didn't log it, despite logging an 8480? And you think that you are going to row 18k in an hour, just like EE, even though you are over 2 decades older, because you think your technique is better? Damn, that's potent stuff you smoke!

eliotsmith · Post by **eliotsmith** » November 27th, 2009, 5:52 am

Damn, that's potent stuff you smoke!

The best in the world!

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » November 27th, 2009, 6:04 am

eliotsmith wrote:
Damn, that's potent stuff you smoke!
The best in the world!

Could it be those aromatic smoking materials that have made him have the personality disorder?

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 27th, 2009, 2:18 pm

whp4 wrote:that would have been a world record for a lightweight of any age

1:45 for 9K?

Nah.

Rod Freed did a lwt 1:45 for a HM when he was 53.

Dan Staite has done 8922m for 30min, four seconds per 500m faster.

30m 6132 11 Ward Hanigan H M USA 2002 Historical record*
30m 6871 88 Scott Oliphint L M USA 2000 Historical record*
30m 7103 12 Marian Uroic L M HRV 2004 Historical record*
30m 7134 81 Dean Smith H M USA 2008 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 7844 71 Roger Bangay L M GBR 2009 Witnessed at public club
30m 8029 70 David W. Woodard H M USA 2009 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8225 65 Andre Grihault L M FRA 2000 Historical record*
30m 8372 18 Will Riffelmacher L M USA 2000 Historical record*
30m 8561 61 TJ Oesterling H M USA 2010 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8686 27 Tom Paradiso L M USA 2008 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8752 18 Tom Dethlefs H M USA 2010 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8767 52 Rod Freed L M USA 2002 Historical record*
30m 8767 44 Kent Timm L M USA 2003 Historical record*
30m 8771 55 TJ Oesterling H M USA 2004 Historical record*
30m 8922 32 Dan Staite L M GBR 2006 Historical record*
30m 8955 29 Len Fechter H M USA 2005 Historical record*
30m 9063 40 Nik Fleming H M GBR 2009 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 9172 31 James Reichert H M USA 1994 Historical record*

ranger

whp4 · Post by **whp4** » November 27th, 2009, 6:40 pm

ranger wrote:
whp4 wrote:that would have been a world record for a lightweight of any age
1:45 for 9K?

Nah.

Rod Freed did a lwt 1:45 for a HM when he was 53.

Dan Staite has done 8922m for 30min, four seconds per 500m faster.

30m 6132 11 Ward Hanigan H M USA 2002 Historical record*
30m 6871 88 Scott Oliphint L M USA 2000 Historical record*
30m 7103 12 Marian Uroic L M HRV 2004 Historical record*
30m 7134 81 Dean Smith H M USA 2008 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 7844 71 Roger Bangay L M GBR 2009 Witnessed at public club
30m 8029 70 David W. Woodard H M USA 2009 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8225 65 Andre Grihault L M FRA 2000 Historical record*
30m 8372 18 Will Riffelmacher L M USA 2000 Historical record*
30m 8561 61 TJ Oesterling H M USA 2010 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8686 27 Tom Paradiso L M USA 2008 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8752 18 Tom Dethlefs H M USA 2010 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 8767 52 Rod Freed L M USA 2002 Historical record*
30m 8767 44 Kent Timm L M USA 2003 Historical record*
30m 8771 55 TJ Oesterling H M USA 2004 Historical record*
30m 8922 32 Dan Staite L M GBR 2006 Historical record*
30m 8955 29 Len Fechter H M USA 2005 Historical record*
30m 9063 40 Nik Fleming H M GBR 2009 PM3/PM4 verification code
30m 9172 31 James Reichert H M USA 1994 Historical record*

ranger

Care to point to the C2 recognized 9k+ for a lwt in your table above? We're all real proud that you've figured out how to copy and paste from another window, maybe we can buff up your reading and arithmetic skills, too!

The fact that you think you think you're going to come anywhere near Big Bird when 2 decades older and about half the muscle is quite a chuckler.

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 28th, 2009, 3:16 am

Since top-end foundational rowing is usually 24 spm, you want to do your distance rowing at 26-32 spm, with 29 spm as a center.

1:43 @ 29 spm (10 MPS) is perfect.

Rowing this December (and for now on after this season) is going to be a dream.

1:43 @ 29 spm is _very_ smooth and relaxing stuff.

Nothing like trudging along at 15 SPI and 20 spm, which I have been doing for the last five years, especially when that trudging is supposed to serve as race preparation!

No more ungainly foundational rowing, hauling anchor!

Done--forever.

1:43 is four seconds per 500m faster than the 2010 WIRC 2K qualifying time for the 60s lightweights, which has been set at 7:07.9.

The qualifying time for the 30s lightweights is 6:21.7, over 45 seconds faster.

Now that I row well, the goal for this December is to try to row 10 MPS @ 29 spm for an hour.

1:43 is my 5K pb, from back in 2003, when I didn't know how to row (or train for rowing) and therefore pulled 9 SPI rather than 11 SPI in my distance rowing.

I am much more technically effective and efficent now than I was then.

The 50s hwt WR for 60min is 1:46/17K.

The recent 55s lightweight hammers, Rocket Roy and Mike VB, row 60min at 1:51.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 28th, 2009, 3:55 am

Then, the goal for 5K is 11.25 SPI @ 32 spm.

1:39

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » November 28th, 2009, 9:18 am

whp4 wrote:Care to point to the C2 recognized 9k+ for a lwt in your table above?

I said I held 1:45 pace for 9K.

I didn't say that I did 9K for 30min.

The two differ by five seconds per 500m.

9K for 30min is 1:40 pace, not 1:45.

ranger