Comparing Heart Rates to activites

[scott.spears]

I'm new to rowing with only about 2 months experience but I have some questions concerning HR compared to other activites. For me, rowing and cycling have similar HR results. I typically avg 140 bpm and a max of 160 for each activity for a 30-60 minute session. However, when I run my HR is much higher. For example: I went on a moderate 3 mile run this weekend @ 8:00 min per mile pace and my avg HR was 153 and my max at 174. This is typical for longer runs as well.

Why the difference? I've read some posts that suggest it has to do with body position and that because in running you're more vertical it causes a higher rate. That does not seem to make sense to me but I'm not a qualified professional on the topic by any means. My theory is that running is so much more difficult that the overall stress involved causes the HR to be higher.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

[jamesg]

The more muscle we use, and the harder, the more blood is needed. How much muscle is in use depends in turn on technique, on how much you've developed the muscles you use, and on the specific sport. It's said that cross country skiing and rowing use most muscle.

In rowing you only have to use your legs to get your power output and HR high. There's a direct relationship between Watts shown by the monitor on C2 and what HR does. Indeed we can use HR to control power level, adjusting the rating. I'm usually at around 140 with 160-170W, rating 20. To get HR to 170 or more all I need do is go to 230W at 23-24.. if I can.

[scott.spears]

jamesg- interesting to compare watt to HR. I have never looked at it that way and don't even use that unit setting when I erg. Have you seen a chart that compares watt/HR?

I've read articles involving professional cyclists and they've referred to wattage as a way to measure power output so I can see how that would correlate to erging.

[jamesg]

You'll have to do your own chart, using ad hoc rules because HR drifts continuously if you maintain the same power level. A similar idea was used by Conconi, all in one workout, to find the AT. Not much use anyway, we all know if we can carry on or not. Idea since discredited I believe, but you can do something similar to find your max HR if you're not afraid of sudden death. However you need to know how to row, putting lots of work into each stroke, otherwise you won't fully load your CV system.

[water-ratt]

Different activities place different demands on the heart and other muscles. I've worn a heart rate monitor while doing LOTS of different exercises and have noticed the following:
Rowing my heart rate going 'medium' is 130-150, 'pretty hard' is 150-170
Mountain biking is pretty close to this.
Paddling a surf-ski (kayak) it's very difficult to get my HR over 150. Most likely because i'm not using my legs. On a road bike (unless i'm going up a hill) i rarely can get above 150bpm. Most likely because i'm only using my legs.
Swimming it's difficult to get my heart rate above 150bpm even going full out. i think the limited ability to breath is the limiting factor but maybe also due to not having to fight gravity (pump blood uphill).
The activity that gets my heart rate the highest?
No question---ice hockey
long bouts in the 170-180bpm range and max often > 200 (and i'm 50yrs/ old).
a high heart rate is only one (small) part of the fitness equation.

[djh]

Exercising while I'm hot boosts my HR. Maybe that's why hockey is HR-intensive for you.

[rlholtz]

Let's talk max HR and aging. The "old" saw goes: your max HR inevitably drops as you age. I've read articles that support this and articles that claim that hard interval work can slow this decline. Which is true? I work out pretty hard, am going on 55, and have seen 208 on my HR monitor. So what's true and what's not?

[Citroen]

So what's true and what's not?

Most of those formulae to calculate maxHR are complete garbage.

The only way to determine a sensible maxHR is by doing a step test to failure (unless you can work with a university sports science lab).

One protocol for that step test is start with your 2K watts (rounded up to a multiple of 25W) minus 150W, row 4 minutes 30 secs rest 25W harder on each of the first four steps, last step is flat out.

[rlholtz]

That I understand. But still, can intense exercise slow the drop in max heart rate as you age, or not?

[gregsmith01748]

@rlholtz: Good question. I've wondered the same thing myself, but I haven't found any real research to clear up my confusion. Basically, every study that I have seen about heart rate and aging is a population based study. At one point in time you come up with a "random" sample of people, measure maximum heart rates and then sift the data out by the ages of the participants. What I would like to see is a longitudinal study where the same people are tested at intervals over many years to see how different lifestyles effect maximum heart rate. That would be a interesting bit of research, but obviously tough to conduct.

[gregsmith01748]

Ah. Found one, but the full text is behind a paywall.

Here's the citation:
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise:
May 2007 - Volume 39 - Issue 5 - pp 822-829
doi: 10.1097/mss.0b013e31803349c6
BASIC SCIENCES: Original Investigations
Longitudinal Modeling of the Relationship between Age and Maximal Heart Rate
GELLISH, RONALD L.; GOSLIN, BRIAN R.; OLSON, RONALD E.; McDONALD, AUDRY; RUSSI, GARY D.; MOUDGIL, VIRINDER K.

Purpose: Maximal heart rate (HRmax)-prediction equations based on a person's age are frequently used in prescribing exercise intensity and other clinical applications. Results from various cross-sectional studies have shown a linear decrease in HRmax during exercise with increasing age. However, it is less well established that longitudinal tracking of the same individuals' HRmax as they age exhibits an identical linear relationship. This study examined the longitudinal relationship between age and HRmax during exercise.

Methods: A retrospective analysis of maximal graded exercise test (GXT) results for members participating in a university-based health-assessment/fitness center between 1978 and 2003 was undertaken in 2006. Records were examined from individuals (N = 132) of both sexes who represented a broad range of age and fitness levels and who had multiple GXT (total N = 908) conducted over 25 years. HRmax-prediction equations based on participants' age and HRmax elicited during the tests were developed using a linear mixed-models statistical analysis approach.

Results: Clinical measurements obtained during the administration of the GXT included in this longitudinal study resulted in the generation of a univariate prediction model: HRmax = 207 - 0.7 × age. Model parameters were highly statistically significant (P < 0.001).

Conclusions: The relationship between age and HRmax during exercise developed in this longitudinal study has resulted in a prediction equation appreciably different from the conventional HRmax formula (220 - age) often used in exercise prescription, and it confirms findings from recent cross-sectional investigations of HRmax.

[rlholtz]

A quote from: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/enduran ... hletes-766

Intensive training keeps age at bay
That great news has emerged from several scientific studies, including one completed recently at Ball State University in the United States. In this study, 37 elite runners (including Frank Shorter and former world record-holder Derek Clayton) were first tested in 1970 and then returned to the Ball State laboratory for re-evaluation in 1992. Eleven of the runners trained strenuously during the intervening years, 18 exercised fairly casually (running regularly but at an easy pace), and eight took up sedentary lifestyles. Most of the runners were in their mid- to late-forties when they were re-tested.

The eight vegetative individuals exhibited characteristic declines in fitness, including a l5-per cent per-decade loss of aerobic capacity, a 12-beat per minute regression of maximal heart rate, a waning of running efficiency, and a significant shortening of stride length. The 18 runners who trained halfheartedly lost about 9 per cent of aerobic capacity per decade, just under the expected 10-15 per cent. However, the 11 individuals who continued training at a high level had no significant loss of V02max, maximal heart rate, running economy, or stride length, even though they had matured from 26-year-old spring chickens into 48-year-old graybeards.
Matthew Vukovich, Ph.D., one of the Ball State investigators, believes that high training intensity was the key factor which kept this select group of 11 athletes young. 'The runners who lost none of their aerobic capacity continued to carry out high-intensity interval training into their 40s; in fact eight of these individuals were high-school cross-country coaches who often ran interval sessions with their teams,' says Vukovich. Among the 11 perpetually youthful athletes was an Ohio resident named Ken Sparks, who was still running 4:13 miles at the age of 45.

[jlawson58]

A quote from: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/enduran ... hletes-766

Intensive training keeps age at bay
That great news has emerged from several scientific studies, including one completed recently at Ball State University in the United States. In this study, 37 elite runners (including Frank Shorter and former world record-holder Derek Clayton) were first tested in 1970 and then returned to the Ball State laboratory for re-evaluation in 1992. Eleven of the runners trained strenuously during the intervening years, 18 exercised fairly casually (running regularly but at an easy pace), and eight took up sedentary lifestyles. Most of the runners were in their mid- to late-forties when they were re-tested.

The eight vegetative individuals exhibited characteristic declines in fitness, including a l5-per cent per-decade loss of aerobic capacity, a 12-beat per minute regression of maximal heart rate, a waning of running efficiency, and a significant shortening of stride length. The 18 runners who trained halfheartedly lost about 9 per cent of aerobic capacity per decade, just under the expected 10-15 per cent. However, the 11 individuals who continued training at a high level had no significant loss of V02max, maximal heart rate, running economy, or stride length, even though they had matured from 26-year-old spring chickens into 48-year-old graybeards.
Matthew Vukovich, Ph.D., one of the Ball State investigators, believes that high training intensity was the key factor which kept this select group of 11 athletes young. 'The runners who lost none of their aerobic capacity continued to carry out high-intensity interval training into their 40s; in fact eight of these individuals were high-school cross-country coaches who often ran interval sessions with their teams,' says Vukovich. Among the 11 perpetually youthful athletes was an Ohio resident named Ken Sparks, who was still running 4:13 miles at the age of 45.

Just saw this post and thought I would comment. First of all, my experience supports this study. There is one thing however about HR- my max is higher when I am out of shape but have recently been fit. Since I have never been out of shape for a long period of time I can't draw any conclusions, but when I have to stop for injuries etc for a few months and return my max HR is higher than it was before I stopped, and higher than I can get it after a few weeks of re-training.

Secondly- and this is a HUGE deal- Intense exercise keeps all parts of your body young, not just your heart. If you attend a competition with very elite masters athletes you will find they all look much younger than their actual age. A doctor friend tells me that is because of the benefits of intense exercise slowing the aging process for everything from skin to eyes (for example, I am 52 and not even close to needing reading glasses).

Another post also commented on not being able to raise their HR much on the erg compared to running. I had the same experience when I started. My theory is that my heart was super fit from running and cycling and had no trouble keeping up with the demands of rowing, but that some of my muscles were not used to exercise and were tiring before my heart was, thereby not allowing for a high HR. After a couple of months I am now able to get my HR just as high as I ever could by either cycling or running.

[Carl Watts]

All way to complicated, just measure your resting HR and find your Max HR, which you will hit as soon as you try and do a 2K PB ! then just plug the numbers into this for your rowing....

http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... e=hr_bands

It is so good I have it printed off with my HR written on it in each band and pinned to the wall above my Erg.

The biggest influence I have found on my HR is ambient air temperature if your rowing at the same Wattage.

[igoeja]

You are upright while running, hence higher HR. Seated activities generally have lower max heart rates....