The Equalizer

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » October 23rd, 2009, 3:10 pm

Ranger wrote:It was in the 30s F., pouring, with 20 mph winds here in Ann Arbor this morning

It was the same here. The winds were around 20 mph, gusting to 32 mph. I did 10K OTW. I'm a wimpy, frail geezer. Since you have finally learned to row and don't catch crabs, it should have been a piece of cake for you.

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » October 23rd, 2009, 3:26 pm

haha rich, seeing as how we're both amateurs at sculling. let me tell you something.

My first race, two weeks ago. a little warmer than yours (50 degrees, maybe 55), had much worse conditions. rowing it up to the chute, i'm in a very strong tailwind. i expected it to die down. Nope. the current on the connecticut river is usually pretty strong, this wind was pushing me backwards as i just sat waiting for the marshall to send my heat through. i'd say at any one time over the first 1.5 miles of the course, it was never lower than 15mph, with terrible waves and gusts of up to 30mph, slowing my pace (according to the speed coach) down to 3:10/500m.

but yet i did not scratch. you gotta get out and race sometime. even if you think you're still training. c'mon man!

http://www.roninracing.com/resultsevent ... &Year=2009

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » October 23rd, 2009, 4:58 pm

I'm not sure why I am bothering to post this. Rich, I have offered you advice before and the usual response is that it is rejected and instead I get an inquiry as to what my 2k time or SPI is.

A long time ago I recommended that you do square blade rowing and other drills, but you said that you prefer taking perfect strokes to doing drills OTW. In every video I have seen of you OTW, you were slobbering on the feather, i.e., skimming your blades on the water during the recovery. Until you learn to manage to keep your blades off the water during the recovery, you will never be able to go fast when the water is choppy, which is more often than not the case during head races. You won't be able to control the oars when they hit waves, and you'll hit waves with your blades when gusts of winds make you wobble a little. Square blade rowing is a standard drill. If you search enough, you will find some coaches who don't recommend square blade rowing because the catch or release is not quite the same as when rowing with feathering. However, this is a fine point and you are not at that level yet. If you don't want to do square blade rowing and if you find another way to keep your blades off the water, and especially well off the water when the water is choppy during the recovery, go for it.

To put it simply, if you can't row with your blades off the water during the recovery, you are not ready for head racing or any other racing when the water is choppy.

You have other technical problems but this one would be a good place to start.

added later: Sorry about posting here. If there is any place for a discussion like this, it would be in the OTW section.

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 24th, 2009, 1:44 am

Byron Drachman wrote:
Ranger wrote:It was in the 30s F., pouring, with 20 mph winds here in Ann Arbor this morning
It was the same here. The winds were around 20 mph, gusting to 32 mph. I did 10K OTW. I'm a wimpy, frail geezer. Since you have finally learned to row and don't catch crabs, it should have been a piece of cake for you.

A piece of cake is not necessarily the same thing as an enjoyable, productive weekend.

As I said, driving 300 miles with my boat in order to stand around in the wind and rain for two days in the 40 degree temperatures is not my cup of tea.

This is just a hobby. I have a lot of other things to do.

One of the great pleasures of this sport is that it lets you enjoy the weather, the venue, the course, the water, etc.

That's one of the main reasons I am participating in this sport.

I'll race (and train in) my 1x when I think I can do that.

In general, I won't race (or train in) my 1x if I think I can't.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 24th, 2009, 1:48 am

bloomp wrote:haha rich, seeing as how we're both amateurs at sculling. let me tell you something.

My first race, two weeks ago. a little warmer than yours (50 degrees, maybe 55), had much worse conditions. rowing it up to the chute, i'm in a very strong tailwind. i expected it to die down. Nope. the current on the connecticut river is usually pretty strong, this wind was pushing me backwards as i just sat waiting for the marshall to send my heat through. i'd say at any one time over the first 1.5 miles of the course, it was never lower than 15mph, with terrible waves and gusts of up to 30mph, slowing my pace (according to the speed coach) down to 3:10/500m.

but yet i did not scratch. you gotta get out and race sometime. even if you think you're still training. c'mon man!

http://www.roninracing.com/resultsevent ... &Year=2009

No, in order to enjoy the sport, I don't "gotta" do anything, Paul.

Perhaps _you_ do, but that's another story.

To each his own.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 24th, 2009, 1:52 am

Byron Drachman wrote:I'm not sure why I am bothering to post this. Rich, I have offered you advice before and the usual response is that it is rejected and instead I get an inquiry as to what my 2k time or SPI is.

A long time ago I recommended that you do square blade rowing and other drills, but you said that you prefer taking perfect strokes to doing drills OTW. In every video I have seen of you OTW, you were slobbering on the feather, i.e., skimming your blades on the water during the recovery. Until you learn to manage to keep your blades off the water during the recovery, you will never be able to go fast when the water is choppy, which is more often than not the case during head races. You won't be able to control the oars when they hit waves, and you'll hit waves with your blades when gusts of winds make you wobble a little. Square blade rowing is a standard drill. If you search enough, you will find some coaches who don't recommend square blade rowing because the catch or release is not quite the same as when rowing with feathering. However, this is a fine point and you are not at that level yet. If you don't want to do square blade rowing and if you find another way to keep your blades off the water, and especially well off the water when the water is choppy during the recovery, go for it.

To put it simply, if you can't row with your blades off the water during the recovery, you are not ready for head racing or any other racing when the water is choppy.

You have other technical problems but this one would be a good place to start.

added later: Sorry about posting here. If there is any place for a discussion like this, it would be in the OTW section.

I row just fine in the wind, Byron.

That doesn't have anything to do with it.

The weather was atrocious.

In an outdoor sport, especially one where you are exposed to the elements pretty completely, what is the enjoyment of gritting your teeth and battling atrocious weather conditions, when you can just as easily wait for a better day?

I am not on a team. I am not in a big boat where others are depending on my participation; I am rowing my 1x. I am not young and therefore training for some sort of national or international achievement in rowing.

I am just rowing for something to do--to have fun.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 24th, 2009, 2:05 am

BTW, Cahill says that he can teach anyone 90% of the rowing stroke in five minutes, but that the other 10% takes a lifetime to learn.

Nice point.

10% of a 8:00 race is 48 seconds.

There you have it, I think.

At a maximum, the part of a 2K that you can trace back to foundational rowing and the work you do on technique is about 48 seconds over 2K--12 seconds per 500m.

In our engagement with the skeletal-motor and technical aspects of rowing, we all do some things well just naturally (e.g., I will always be able to make great use of my core and back), some things poorly, or in the worst case, some things not at all.

The part of a 2K that you leave on the table because you slight your foundational rowing in some way, avoiding rather than overcoming your technical weaknesses, is some fraction of that.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 24th, 2009, 2:55 am

Byron Drachman wrote:You have other technical problems

How would you know?

You haven't seen me row lately.

The last video I posted was a year and half ago.

Since then, I have lost my gloves, lost my shoes, raised the rigging, learned how to sit tall and square up at the catch, learned how keep my heels set and therefore hands low on the recovery, learned to keep better distance between my oars on the recovery so that I don't drop my right oar, learned to be quicker at the finish with both my hands and my hips, learned to be more deliberate at the catch, learned to be more rhythmic in the swing of my back, learned to finish more completely with my arms, and a host of other things.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 24th, 2009, 3:06 am

Byron Drachman wrote:I'm not sure why I am bothering to post this. Rich

I'm not sure why, either, Byron.

Until you learn how to row well, you are in no position to give advice.

You are not frail.

You just row badly.

Get off your heels and take both the catch and the swing of your back with the balls of your feet, the latter while pressing down with your toes in the middle of the drive.

Drive with your heels _between_ the two pushes up on your toes. Finish your legs _before_ you swing your back, but get a big back swing nonetheless.

Delay your arms until you are done swinging your back.

If you do, on the erg, you'll get 120 kgs. of peak pressure and pulll 13 SPI pretty easily, as lightweights who row well do.

Just dinking along, however cleanly you are clearing your oars, isn't rowing well.

Have you ever tried running 5K on your heels, never using your toes?

Wretched stuff.

Ineffective.

Not physically frail.

Just technically bad.

If you row on your heels, at the catch, you can't make full use of your quads; in the middle of the drive, you can't make use of your calves, ankles, and toes; and when you swing your back, your angles of leverage at the footplate are all wrong, gutting the pressure you can maintain in the middle of your drive.

Post a video of 500m or so your force curve at race speed and rate (e.g., 32-36 spm).

That should tell the story.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 24th, 2009, 3:48 am

Byron--

I presume you are not getting any better in your rowing, given that you assume others also are not.

Sorry to hear that.

What's the problem?

Do you have trouble concentrating on these things in your training?

I love working on technique.

So I get better every time I row.

ranger

hjs · Post by **hjs** » October 24th, 2009, 7:25 am

ranger wrote:BTW, Cahill says that he can teach anyone 90% of the rowing stroke in five minutes, but that the other 10% takes a lifetime to learn.

Nice point.

10% of a 8:00 race is 48 seconds.

ranger

hahahah mister Eh numbers ?? "those go way above my head".

10 % is 10 % off power, speed and power are far from linear.

If we take a 7.00 min. erger, 1.45/500 or 302 watts, 10 % increese would give 332 watt, that is 141.8/500, so speedwise only 3.1 % faster, that would only be 12.4 seconds.

So if you think this 90 % rule is true, you can only improve 12.4 seconds on technique, the rest has to come from conditioning.
And here you are after years and years and still "not ready".

snowleopard · Post by **snowleopard** » October 24th, 2009, 9:10 am

ranger wrote:BTW, Cahill says that he can teach anyone 90% of the rowing stroke in five minutes, but that the other 10% takes a lifetime to learn.

Nice point.

10% of a 8:00 race is 48 seconds.

ranger

It's a good job that you languish in an academic backwater since your powers of perception and analysis are woeful.

Do you believe that when Cahill made that comment he was making any reference to speed? He is referring to finesse: the difference between splitting logs and producing exquisite wood carvings.

It's also nothing new, just a tweak of the 80-20 rule. But a drowning man will clutch at anything I guess

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » October 25th, 2009, 12:33 am

See, now that he can't live up to his boasts, he claims it's all for fun! Just a game lads, nothing to see here, no really don't take me seriously!

Paul

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 25th, 2009, 2:19 am

snowleopard wrote:Do you believe that when Cahill made that comment he was making any reference to speed?

Indeed I do.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 25th, 2009, 2:20 am

hjs wrote:
ranger wrote:BTW, Cahill says that he can teach anyone 90% of the rowing stroke in five minutes, but that the other 10% takes a lifetime to learn.

Nice point.

10% of a 8:00 race is 48 seconds.

ranger
hahahah mister Eh numbers ?? "those go way above my head".

10 % is 10 % off power, speed and power are far from linear.

If we take a 7.00 min. erger, 1.45/500 or 302 watts, 10 % increese would give 332 watt, that is 141.8/500, so speedwise only 3.1 % faster, that would only be 12.4 seconds.

So if you think this 90 % rule is true, you can only improve 12.4 seconds on technique, the rest has to come from conditioning.
And here you are after years and years and still "not ready".

Yes, there it is.

12.4 seconds over 2K.

Just what I am looking for as an improvement in my 2K by working on technique.

ranger