Hijacking of the daily training thread

Nomugie · Post by **Nomugie** » October 4th, 2009, 7:07 pm

The problem is not that Ranger posts, but IT IS THAT PEOPLE RESPOND! If you don't play his game... Wasn't the theory behind not "boycotting" his UK blog?

Thank you for posting this Bob, as I find* the bickering to be tedious. Though I guess you no longer look at this thread either.

Emily

*edit: I also find bad grammar boring...

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » October 4th, 2009, 8:12 pm

Nomugie wrote:The problem is not that Ranger posts, but IT IS THAT PEOPLE RESPOND! If you don't play his game... Wasn't the theory behind not "boycotting" his UK blog?

Thank you for posting this Bob, as I have the bickering to be tedious. Though I guess you no longer look at this thread either.

Emily

Well, I started posting regularly on it when I started the IP just two months ago. It was mainly just for myself to add a little motivation to stick with the program. It was also fun to get an occasional response. Now it is so crapped up that I will probably skip it. I can always post on the UK forum, but it has its drawbacks.

Bob S.

Nomugie · Post by **Nomugie** » October 5th, 2009, 9:42 am

Don't give up on it, Bob! If you do, then they win.

I am planning on posting regularly once I start "training" again.

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 5th, 2009, 9:50 am

Nomugie wrote:The problem is not that Ranger posts, but IT IS THAT PEOPLE RESPOND! If you don't play his game...

That would be hard, given that this is a rowing forum.

_My_ game is rowing.

The game of all of the folk that respond to my training so bizarrely is futzing around on the internet.

To each his own.

Yes, if someone responds to me, I respond back.

That's only natural.

If no one responds, so be it.

I just report my training.

ranger

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 5th, 2009, 9:53 am

nomugie wrote:I have the bickering to be tedious.

Yes, I find the bickering tedious, too.

Why can't people just report their training and their enthusiasm for the sport?

Rowing is great, both OTW and off.

ranger

chgoss · Post by **chgoss** » October 5th, 2009, 3:26 pm

ranger wrote:
nomugie wrote:I have the bickering to be tedious.
Yes, I find the bickering tedious, too.

Why can't people just report their training and their enthusiasm for the sport?

Rowing is great, both OTW and off.

ranger

it all makes sense, once we understand Rangers belief system.. In this case, #5..

Code: Select all

Rangers belief system: 
1) the best way to train is to focus on individual strokes. This is done by looking at the force curve, and the SPI (information that is derived from rate/pace for that one particular stroke). 

2) Only "good" strokes should be taken in training, a "good" stroke is one pulled with a good force curve, at a certain SPI. 
good lightweights pull 13SPI, heavy weights 16SPI (i think it was 16...) 

Here are the SPM/pace combinations allowed for LW (13SPI) 
20SPM - 1:50/500m 
22SPM - 1:47/500m 
24SPM - 1:44/500m 
26SPM - 1:41/500m 
28SPM - 1:38/500m 
30SPM - 1:36/500m 

3) Timing a piece, at any distance, any level of effort, any duration, is considered "racing your training", aka "sharpening" and is detremental to your training. 

4) a person's weight is "at" a certain value, if at some point in the day, that person can weigh him/her self, and it's that value. 

5) ranger has "done" a piece and is free to "report" it as "done" in a post on training, when he feels he "can do" the piece. Actually doing the piece is not neccessary, and may even be detremental as it can interrupt the flow of training (refer to #3).

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 5th, 2009, 4:31 pm

chgoss wrote:ranger has "done" a piece and is free to "report" it as "done" in a post on training, when he feels he "can do" the piece.

I haven't claimed to be doing "pieces" by the clock.

I only do this in sharpening, and I haven't sharpened in years, and am not really sharpening quite yet for this year.

When I am not sharpening, I just row for a certain distance, working on various things in technique or keeping to certain basic paces, stroking powers, and rates.

So that's what I report.

If you don't do "pieces," you can't report them.

But you can train just fine without doing "pieces."

Not all training is racing.

In fact, the best training, the only training that makes you better, has nothing to do with racing.

Clocks are irrelevant to rowing well.

ranger

chgoss · Post by **chgoss** » October 5th, 2009, 5:33 pm

ranger wrote:
chgoss wrote:ranger has "done" a piece and is free to "report" it as "done" in a post on training, when he feels he "can do" the piece.
I haven't claimed to be doing "pieces" by the clock.

true... I updated the list below, see bold sections..

Rangers belief system:
1) the best way to train is to focus on individual strokes. This is done by looking at the force curve, and the SPI (information that is derived from rate/pace for that one particular stroke).

2) Only "good" strokes should be taken in training, a "good" stroke is one pulled with a good force curve, at a certain SPI.
good lightweights pull 13SPI, heavy weights 16SPI (i think it was 16...)

Here are the SPM/pace combinations allowed for LW (13SPI)
20SPM - 1:50/500m
22SPM - 1:47/500m
24SPM - 1:44/500m
26SPM - 1:41/500m
28SPM - 1:38/500m
30SPM - 1:36/500m

3) Timing a piece, at any distance, any level of effort, any duration, is considered "racing your training", aka "sharpening" and is detremental to your training.

4) a person's weight is "at" a certain value, if at some point in the day, that person can weigh him/her self, and it's that value.

5) ranger has "done" something and is free to "report" that thing as "done" in a post on training, when he feels he "can do" that thing. Actually doing the thing (in a quantifiable way) is not neccessary, and may even be detremental as it can interrupt the flow of training (refer to #3).

ranger wrote:
Clocks are irrelevant to rowing well.

ranger

Ah, you probably meant to say "recording the time it takes to row a certain distance is irrelevant to rowing well"
Knowing your pace is critical to calculating the SPI, which of course is the only measure of rowing well.. you have to have a clock to know the pace...

ranger · Post by **ranger** » October 6th, 2009, 2:17 am

chgoss wrote:Knowing your pace is critical to calculating the SPI

Yes, during each stroke, but not over any particular distance rowed, so not in any way that needs to involve a clock or "a piece."

When you do foundational rowing, you should row well, with no attention to the clock.

When you do "pieces" by the clock during sharpening, you should row efficiently, so that you go as fast as you can over set distances when you sharpen.

You should learn to row efficiently in the pre-sharpening/distance rowing stage in training. No need to pay attention to the clock during this stage of training, either. Just get used to counting the zeros on an odometer. No matter what rate you are going, just maintain 10 MPS.

These three sorts of rowing are different matters entirely--as is racing.

Foundational rowing should be done at full slide, rowing well (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights).

Distance rowing should be done at 10 MPS, cutting the slide to adjust stroking power to rate and pace so that a constant ratio is maintained.

Sharpening should be done to maximize pace over distance rowed, whatever that takes. For most rowers, this means using a high rate and trading some rate for pace relative to 10 MPS.

Foundational rowing is rowing well at full slide and low rates over moderate distances.

Pre-sharpening (or distance rowing) is rowing with a cut slide at 10 MPS and moderate rates over long distances.

Sharpening is trading rate for pace over short distances at high rates.

When you race, you equalize these various factors and row for a moderate distance (2K), with a moderate slide (90% of full power?), at a moderate rate (e.g., 32 spm).

ranger