Cut Slide

[ranger]

Henrik Stephansen at the catch, from the video, at the 44-second mark:



Compare the angle of the shins with the edge of the podium (black line behind him), which is vertical. What he does technique-wise is start his drive fully compressed, with his back relatively straight upright and his hands coming up much less farther forward towards the chain box than they might be. Effectively, he's trading a bit of potential stroke length at the catch for faster stroke cycles/higher ratings.

On the water, not coming fully forward on the slide is going to keep a rower's center of mass farther towards the bow than it should be. Regardless of anything else it does, the effect must be to drive the bow down into the water and slow the boat.

EDIT: forgot to add, note also the damper setting. He's clearly got the lever set at 5, which on the new out-of-the-box machines used for Crash-Bs probably means a drag factor of 125-130.

Yes, thanks for that, Nav.

_Way_ short of vertical at the catch.

Look at Stephansen's catch, compared to the catch of the guy next to him (whose shins are vertical).

I suspect that I am quite a bit stronger than Stephansen, so I am rowing with a higher drag (max, actually), which lets me cheat the catch even more.

Yes, unfortunately, I agree that this is just an "erg" stroke, though.

You wouldn't want to do it in a 1x.

Just the opposite.

In a 1x, you want to get as long as possible, especially at the catch.

No problem with that.

When you learn to row, you should do several _years_ of rowing exclusively at full slide and a high stroking power, as I did over over the last five years, before you start cutting the slide in order to go fast on the erg, like Stephansen.

As a lightweight, you can't row 12 SPI with a cut slide if you can't row 13-15 SPI at full slide!

And, as a lightweight, rowing a lot at 13-15 SPI is no piece of cake (until you get _very_ used to it).

My best competition in the 55s lightweights at the moment (Rocket and Mike VB ) both race at 9.5 SPI and in training can't go much of anywhere at 13-15 SPI.

ranger

[ranger]

To reduce the work per stroke, you can reduce length, handle force or both. Which to do depends on your failure mode during a race. If it's mechanical overload, as mine would be as I can't pull full force for the 200+ times it takes in a 2k, I'd reduce handle force by dropping the drag.

Yes, good point.

But given the nature of the human body, the effects of aging, and the sport of rowing, no rower should _ever_ have mechanical overload be the cause of failure in a 2K.

You should always do enough rowing at an elevated stroking power and full slide so that you can row 2K right through with a high stroking power, and if you are on the erg, a cut slide without mechanical failure.

Cause of limitation/failure in a 2K should _always_ be aerobic capacity, which, when you are rowing normally or with a cut slide, is largely a function of rate, not stroking power.

You should be able to pull all day long at low rates and your natural stroking power.

And if you are ambitious and want to put in the effort, your target for natural stroking power, regardless of your age, I think, should be rowing well (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights).

Why?

There is no necessary decline in strength with aging.

Old guys are weak because they neglect their strength, not because biology is dictating the decline.

Not so with aerobic capacity.

Over the decades, aerobic capacity necessarily declines.

If you train yourself maximally, all the time, your aerobic capacity at 60 is never as large as your aerobic capacity when you were in your 20s.

But now, as I approach 60, I am _stronger_ than I was in my 20s.

ranger

[ranger]

I would be _very_ surprised if Stephansen rates 43 spm in a 1x for 2K.

If he does, I think we'd be hearing about it.

ranger

[NavigationHazard]

I suppose it depends on your definitions of "vertical" and "_way_short." While mine are "perpendicular to the plane of the horizon" and self-evidently, respectively, yours evidently are not.

[Tinus]

Yes, unfortunately, I agree that this is just an "erg" stroke, though.

You wouldn't want to do it in a 1x.

Just the opposite.

In a 1x, you want to get as long as possible, especially at the catch.

There are reasons to do this on water as well. The shorter stroke reduces time needed in the turning points, reduces lost kinetic energy (although a disadvantage is that it increases the number of times this energy is lost due to higher stroke rate), reduces speed fluctuations of the flywheel (and the boat given the same speed of the rower with respect to the boat) and it may improve application of the muscles.

These effects are similar on water except that the use of muscles is slightly different (less legs at the start and more legs at the end) and there is less effect of kinetic energy savings however the reduced time taken in the turning points are more beneficial on water as it allows the rower to move more slowly which has benefits on water which are not present on the erg.

One could devide styles in four different ones based on timing and amount of back swing. You will see all of these styles so the question which is best is not easily answered and maybe has no conclusive answer. Maybe add a third parameter, the amount of leg drive?
http://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_2006.htm (issue number 62)

[ranger]

If I row 10 MPS with a radically cut slide (say, 1:51 @ 27 spm, 9.5 SPI)), hardly using my legs at all, I get 100 kgs. of peak pressure.

Then, as PaulS underlines, if I just keep the same cadence and go to full slide, I do 1:34 @ 32 spm (10 MPS, 13 SPI) and get 135 kgs. of peak pressure.

Adding bits of slide, maintaining the same cadence in between, takes me up the 10MPS ladder, from 1:51 @ 27 to 1:47 @ 28 spm, to 1:43 @ 29 spm, to 1:40 @ 30, to 1:37 @ 31 spm, to 1:34 @ 32 spm.

It is fun to run up and down this 10 MPS ladder, just adding and cutting slide, holding the rhythm/cadence firm.

This is an especially disciplined and effective way to warm up for a session of sharpening.

Just hold 10 MPS, starting at 25 spm (2:00 pace) and move up the 10 MPS rate ladder, say, one spm every 2K, until you are rowing well, whatever rate that might be.

Given that I am a lightweight, for me, that point arrives at 13 SPI, 1:34 @ 32 spm.

At the higher stroke rates (30 and above), just stay comfortable in this warm up, moving into a fartlek førmat, taking breaks as you need them, as though you were sharpening, trading rate for pace, but in this case, maintaining 10 MPS, even if it is not maximally fast/easy for you, given the distances you are covering.

Then, when you are done with your warm up, move on to sharpening, where the point is just to go as fast as you can, trading rate for pace.

At low rates, then, this warm up is like what PaulS has his rowers do.

At higher rates, the work is done at high stroking powers, approaching rowing well, which draws upon the work you have done earlier at low rates, as in level 4 rowing in the WP.

Another nice variation on days that you don't sharpen is to truncate the ladder at your target 20K pace.

You can do this by starting with 2K, 2:00 @ 25 spm, adding 1K to each interval as you go up the ladder.

So,

2K, 2:00 @ 25 spm
3K, 1:55 @ 26 spm
4K, 1:51 @ 27 spm
5K, 1:47 @ 28 spm
6K, 1:43 @ 29 spm

Sharpening is pretty much the same in all of the training plans, although the stroking power used, which is neither 10 MPS nor rowing well (13 SPI for lightweights, 16 SPI for heavyweights), but something in between, closely resembles what is suggested in the IP from start to finish through the various heart-rate training bands--UT2, UT1, AT, TR, AN.

By and large, the interactive plan keeps the stroking power constant at all rates, with that level being what you might use, going maximally fast, trading rate for pace, in a 2K.

Interestingly, at 10 MPS, cutting the slide, at my target FM pace, 1:47 @ 28 spm, I am right about at half slide.

I'll get a video of this to illustrate.

That means that I would probably row my fastest FM if I rated 28 spm, without trading rate for pace at all, rowing right at 10 MPS.

Cut slide!

1:47 @ 28 spm is right about what the best 55s lwts do for 5K.

5K is done at 2K + 5.

1:42/6:48 is a good 2K for the best 55s lwts.

A FM is done at 2K + 14.

There are those 9 seconds per 500m again!

Rocket does a FM at 1:56. (Mike VB doesn't row FMs).

Rowing at half slide at a comfortable rate, you are not even breathing hard.

You are holding half of your leg power is reserve.

You're not pushing hard with your legs.

You're taking just a light little strøke, 3 SPI below your natural stroking power at full slide.

You're "frothing."

Your HR should reflect this.

Mid-range UT1.

75% HRR, perhaps rising to 80% HRR by the end.

FM pace, rate, and HR.

For me, 80% HRR is about 160 bpm.

I can row a FM if I can keep my HR at (or below) 160 bpm.

ranger

[ranger]

When I row 2:00 @ 25 spm (10 MPS), maintaining good technique, I cut the slide 19".

I only use 6" of slide.

So, changing nothing but length of slide, I can just add a few inches on each step up the 10 MPS ladder, and there it is.

It looks as though I need to add about 2.75 inches for each spm.

2:00 @ 25 spm (8.1 SPI) 6" of slide
1:55 @ 26 spm (8.8 SPI) 8.75" of slide
1:51 @ 27 spm (9.5 SPI) 11.5" of slide
1:47 @ 28 spm (10.2 SPI) 14.25" of slide
1:43 @ 29 spm (11.0 SPI) 17" of slide
1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI) 19.75" of slide
1:37 @ 31 spm (12.4 SPI) 22.5" of slide
1:34 @ 32 spm (13.1 SPI) 25.25" of slide

At full slide, shins vertical at the catch, I use right around 25" of the rail.

ranger

[ranger]

To row your fastest over some distance, you need to adjust your blend of rowing well and rowing efficiently to the distance.

In the shortest races (e.g., 500m and 1K) you can go ahead and row well at full slide.

In the longest races (e.g., HM, FM), you can only row efficiently at half slide.

At full slide, I pull 13 SPI.

At half slide, I pull 10 SPI.

So, my most effective racing stroke for 2K is a blend of the two--11.5 SPI at 2/3 slide.

This is exactly the Danish Lightweight Racing Stroke.

At 43 spm, as Stephansen does it, 11.5 SPI is 1:29.2/5:56.8 for 2K.

The only question for me now is how high I can get the rate in a 2K, given my age.

With a cut slide of this sort, I think I can get the rate to 36 spm in a 2K, as I used to back in 2002-2003, perhaps higher.

11.5 SPI @ 36 spm is 1:35/6:20.

11.5 SPI @ 37 spm is 1:34/6:16.

When I was in my 20s, thirty years ago, I think I probably could have gotten the rate to 43 spm, like the Danes.

I was a middle distance runner on the track (800m, 1500m, 5K).

In spite of his age, Rocket Roy Brook also gets the rate in a 2K to 36-37 spm, but he only pulls 9.5 SPI.

2 SPI at 35 spm is 70 watts.

There's that seven seconds per 500m again!

ranger

[ranger]

Rowing with a cut slide makes it easy to get the rate up.

My standard session is now this:

I warm up by working up the 10 MPS ladder to 29 spm and 10 MPS (1:43).

Then I hold that for some comfortable distance.

Then I do sprints at 42 spm, trading rate for pace.

Both bits of rowing, at 29 spm and at 42 spm, are done at 11.5 SPI with a 2/3 slide.

The rowing at 29 spm is done at 2K + 6.

The rowing at 42 spm is done at 2K - 6.

At half slide, I get 90 kgs. of peak pressure with my legs.

At 2/3 slide, I get 110 kgs.

At full slide, I get 130 kgs.

ranger

[jays]

I suspect that I am quite a bit stronger than Stephansen, so I am rowing with a higher drag (max, actually), which lets me cheat the catch even more.

ranger

You are stronger than Stephansen.(Prove it)

If you are rowing at Max Drag you are a muppet.

[ranger]

If you are rowing at Max Drag you are a muppet.

Really?

You might reconsider.

The most durable record in all of indoor rowing was set at max drag, Andy Ripley's 50s hwt WR (6:07).

Pulling at max drag back in 2003, I set the 50s lwt WR three times on three consecutive rows (6:30, 6:29, 6:28).

This year, again pulling at max drag, I think I'll pull a lwt 6:16.

For WIRC, I will be 59 years old.

Andy Hodge claims that max drag on the erg feels like a 1x.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... 440592.stm

Do you agree?

Both Graham Watt and Rod Freed use setting 7.

Social convention (low drag) is not preferable if it is ineffective.

No?

What is your age, height, and weight?

And what you _you_ pull for 2K?

ranger

[ranger]

You are stronger than Stephansen.(Prove it)

How?

How about this?

I can pull 500m, 1:30 @ 30 spm (16 SPI).

I think that might be a challenge for Stephansen.

ranger

[jays]

Pulling at max drag back in 2003,

This year, again pulling at max drag, I think I'll pull a lwt 6:16.

For WIRC, I will be 59 years old.


What is your age, height, and weight?

And what you _you_ pull for 2K?

ranger

You are going to pull 6:16 at max drag,for a 59 year old light weight. That i can not wait to see,make sure you tape that.

6 years ago you pulled 6:2X,and you are getting better and stronger with age.



The answer to your Question is i am 38years old HWT,6 ffot 3. been rowing for just over a year.dropped from 7:20 down to 6:26 so far....

[jays]

How about this?

I can pull 500m, 1:30 @ 30 spm (16 SPI).

I think that might be a challenge for Stephansen.

ranger

I dont think that would be a challenge.He has the world record.
I can pull a 1:28 at 29spm.

[ranger]

You are going to pull 6:16 at max drag,for a 59 year old light weight. That i can not wait to see,make sure you tape that. Cool

6 years ago you pulled 6:2X,and you are getting better and stronger with age.

Yes, I am getting quite a bit better with age.

I have just learned to row well, both OTW and off, and how to train for rowing.

Rowing is significantly technical, so this is helping quite a bit.

Training for rowing has its own special quirks, too.

No need for a tape of the lightweight 6:16.

I'll do it at WIRC.

ranger