Newbie quesitons...

[dr. espo]

hello all, great site and fantastic forum! I am a newbie and have just started my "basic training".

I have a few quesitons, first some backround I am a bit out of shape 52 year old that wants to drop a few pounds around the middle as well as tone up overall. I am 6 feet and 180lbs. I plan to work out 4 times a week and anticipate being able to do at least 5K each workout period. I am somewhat hesitant to do more than that initially as I have some lower back issues (spinal stenosis) that becomes aggravated rather easily. The nordic track skier I had became a bit of a problem in the lower back area so I gave that up for the c-2 in all fairness though much of that may be poor technique. Anyway, I view the C-2 as being somewhat easier in the lower back dept, I hope that is not wishful thinking!

Well, I'm sure I will have many more questions, but the three that are prominent now are:
1) I have done a 2k and 5k workout one day apart, after the 5k I noticed threee blisters on my hands, I assume this is to be expected, but can it also be a technique problem causing it?

2) I have reviewed the proper rowing techique and found that while I was able to maintain fairly good form for about 4000M that last 1000M saw me driving well but then leaning FORWARD instead of backwark at the end of the stroke! As I was pulling the handle into my stomach I found that my head was moving towards my knees. Its probably just an issue of being fatigued...but if anyone has a suggestion on breaking this habit I'd love to hear about it.

3) I thought I had sweat a lot doing the nordic track...lol, this 5k workout had me dripping...unreal!
I averaged 29 s/m in the 5 K and felt great...I think I felt the most muscle stress in my glutes, I was surprised because I thought my legs would feel it more, is this normal or is my technique lacking?

thanks for any suggestions you can give

Mike

[cyndiko]

HI Mike - First let me say, I am just one week into rowing myself and am SO not the expert, but you will get some great tips from those who ARE.

I just wanted to say that I too developed blisters after just 3 sessions, and my goal for the next row is to not grip the handle too tightly. Think of the hands like 'hooks'.

I have not noticed any issue in my lower back, but I wanted to suggest that you stretch well before and after each workout.

Also, most of my muscle 'stress' so far has been in the lats and upper back. Make sure the seat stays directly under your torso at all times - that may also help with the forward lean (sounds like the seat is going a little further behind you after the drive?)

Again - I am still trying to get the form down, but suggestions I got here helped tremendously. Also, go to You Tube and search out 'rowing technique' or 'Concept2 rowing' and watch some videos. That helped me a lot too, since no one at my gym really uses these machines,a nd the ones that do, are not doing it properly.

Good Luck! I dropped 3 pounds last week just by adding rowing to my schedule...my first love is running, but I think this will be a close second!

[jamesg]

Blisters will appear on fingers, not hands, if we use them as hooks, i.e don't hold on at all. This is normal and is proportional to the km rowed. Not all certificates are on paper.

The key to rowing is technique, of which posture is a large part. It's impossible to work hard and so get fit if technique is bad.

Back straight and head up at the finish, plenty of swing AFTER hands away, then full length with the legs so that the weight is well on the feet at the catch, with shins vertical. Only then can the catch be fast enough to catch up with the flywheel and ensure a LONG stroke. Low drag, <130 (damper 3 usually).

The work the counter sees is the product of handle force x stroke length; so both are equally important. But length doesn't make you tired; so never compromise length, if necessary reduce handle force by reducing the drag, but never length. Among other things it's using length and extension that keeps us flexible and young by working the tendons.

Numerical indices to watch are Watts/rating (10 is a good number), Watts/kg body weight (>2) and sweat (>1 kg a go).

Always warm up by pulling fast short strokes (even 60 a minute arms only) for 2-3 minutes, then gradually lengthen and slow the rating to 20-24 by adding swing and then knees up until HR is around 140. Then the work begins with typically 200W at rating 20 (for endurance, 20-40'), according to your size, shape, age and sex.

[TabbRows]

Then the work begins with typically 200W at rating 20

James sometimes forgets that very few if any newbies (or regular ergers, for that matter) are going to be erging at 2:00/500 pace for a 5K right out of the box at any rating much less at a 20. , which is what a 200 watts translates into. His technique advice is, as always, spot on. And I encourage you to read other posts he has here to learn more.

What both Dr Espo and cyndiko might want to do, IMO, is get into a training programming for beginners either from the C2 Interactive Training or go to Pete Marsten's blog and look at his beginner training schedule. I think this will get you there:

[/url]http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/[url] Also, in terms of lower back, Dr. E., ... opinions.[/url]

[dr. espo]

Thanks very much for you responses everyone...

Cindi, yes, I have gone to the "hook" method and did another 5K today, no blisters! You were also correct about my position on the seat, I think my butt was kicking out at the end of the stroke...very poor technique...

James, I do have the damper set at 3 but when I ran a drag factor its only at 100...I may have to push it to 4, the resistance just feels a bit light at 3.

Tabb, thanks much for the reference to Pete's site, I am checking that schedule out now...FWIW I am averaging a 2:16.5 for the 5K but my highest generated watts is only 150...some work to do there.

Again, thanks everyone, I'll post more comments as I go.

Mike

[dr. espo]

ok, so I am continuing to work on my technique but developed one problem, elbow pain ... this has been bothering me for some time so its not related to the rower, more of a work related issue. At any rate, at the suggestion of a trainer I work with I started to use an underhanded grip on the handle and have found it to work wonders, it alleviates a tremendous amount of stress on the elbow. I realize this is not the classical method to row but it seems to work.

Does anyone have any comments, good or bad regarding an underhanded grip, I did a search on it but found very little.

Did another 5k today and actually decreased my time over the last one, but this time I increased the drag factor from 100 to 120 and adjusted the foot pads so that the balls of my feet were under the straps. Right now I am at a little over 22 minutes for the 5k and averaging 25s/m. This made a huge difference as I now push off on the drive on the ball of the foot rather than the heel as I was doing before.

All in all I feel its going in the right direction and I will be following Pete's plan starting next week for variation and increase in meters/week.

Your further comments are welcome!

Regards,
Mike

[grams]

I alternate over and underhanded grip. I started because of elbow and wrist pain. It cured the pain and gives me good-looking arms. I'm not training for racing so the slightly lower pace is just fine.

Now that you have done a few sessions, try doing a bit strapless. It will force you to have better form. Be careful at first-don't push back so suddenly that you go off the back of the seat.

My most efficient settings

drag factor 105
10 meters/stroke
20 strokes/minute
twice as much time for the recovery (up) as for the pushback
back straight and abs tight all the time
rthymic breathing
keep your head level throughout the stroke


Have fun!

grams

[Nosmo]

Having had elbow and forearms problems, I've learned a few things.
If I row with good technique it helps my arms. Bad technique causes lots of problems.
How I use my computer and sit during the day makes a big difference in how my arms feel. I think the computer was a bigger cause of my arm problems then rowing--but the problems stopped my from rowing but not from using the computer.
Use your hands as hooks--first segment of the fingers in line with the back of hand and wrist straight, however here is less stress with the thumbs under the handle but very loose.
elbows out and forearms level at the finish. You should feel your shoulder blades coming together at the end of the stroke.
Don't bend the elbows too early. Start the drive with the legs. It takes a little time for the chain to catch up to the flywheel, and some people have a tendency to cock their elbows to do so. IF your arms are bent at the start of the drive, all the force of the legs and back will have to be supported by the arms and elbow. This is a lot of unnecessary stress. Just hang on the handles. You should feel it in your lats. But don't hyper extend your arms during the first part of the drive either. That will cause just as many problems.

[grams]

Don't forget a little 'shoulder shrug' at the end of the stroke to engage the lats. It helps with my 'mouse arm' and adds power to the stroke.

Personally I keep my elbows in - not 'chicken wing' There may be a difference between mens' and womens' strokes regarding arm pull. We have a different chest build.

grams

[tdekoekkoek]

Don't forget a little 'shoulder shrug'

You do _not_ want to do that. The arms and body should finish the stroke naturally. Also if you are having elbow problems you might have your arms too straight. What I mean by that is that your arms should be straight, but not in a locked position. the elbow should be slightly dropped so that the force line goes through the lats and not through the next and shoulders.

Another thing: drag factor at 120 should be max. I do most of my work at 115. Certainly some people can row higher, but consider your strength and endurance. Higher drag factor tends to make you engage your back and arms too early in the drive.

[grams]

Hmmm. I was shown the shoulder shrug in an erg class by a veteran on the water rower and erger.
I recommend an erg class if you have access to a rowing club nearby. Most of them do erg training in the winter. I went to Sammamish Rowing Club in Redmond, WA.

grams

[dr. espo]

ok, i'm trying to combine most of these suggestions and concentrate on my form. I think its going pretty well (using a combo overhand and underhand grip) for the 5k.

Just got my time down to about 21.5 minutes and 20 s/m. Felt very good with minimal elbow discomfort. I don't want to focus on the time, however, the competitive side of me can't reisist hey, whatever keeps you motivated and rowing is good, right?! Or as my wife says: whatever floats your boat...lol...

I tried to sprint the last 200m but was very disappointed in the results, I must have shortened my drive and sacrificed length. I think it actually HURT my time.

I have the heart monitor and need to get that on to check my heart rate...

So far so good...thanks for all the hints so far!

Mike

[tdekoekkoek]

I recommend an erg class if you have access to a rowing club nearby. Most of them do erg training in the winter.

grams

hmmm. Somewhat condescending. Perhaps I don't know what you mean by a shoulder shrug. I've never heard it coached by any of the national and world class coaches that have coached me, nor do I coach that myself. But maybe you can give me some advice on what to incorporate into my erging class that I plan on running this winter.

[Bob S.]

Hmmm. I was shown the shoulder shrug in an erg class by a veteran on the water rower and erger.
grams

Grams,

With almost 80 years of rowing behind me, I have never heard any mention of a shoulder shrug. I do remember pointing out to a neophyte that she was tensing up her shoulders and that she should be more relaxed. The movement that she had was essentially a shrug, i.e. a tensing of her trapezius muscles. I would think that this would be very tiring.

Bob S.

[dr. espo]

Hmmm. I was shown the shoulder shrug in an erg class by a veteran on the water rower and erger.
grams

Grams,

With almost 80 years of rowing behind me, I have never heard any mention of a shoulder shrug. I do remember pointing out to a neophyte that she was tensing up her shoulders and that she should be more relaxed. The movement that she had was essentially a shrug, i.e. a tensing of her trapezius muscles. I would think that this would be very tiring.

Bob S.

Bob, you have been rowing almost 80 years??? Wow, now THAT'S dedication, I hope I have half the determination that you have

Mike