Rowpro Impressions

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » October 16th, 2004, 2:30 pm

I am sort of surprised that there hasn't been more excitement/activity related to the release of rowpro 1.7 this week. I have been waiting several years for the possibility of internet racing, having upgraded from a PM2 to a PM3 last sept. At the time, C2 was promising internet racing for the PM3 shortly, so it has been a little frustrating seeing C2 give up on that. But I have been using rowpro since July, and even aside from the internet racing, which isn't really working yet, I find it a huge improvement and a great addition to my C2. To me, particularly since I use and will only buy macs, the biggest obstacle to running rowpro was that I needed a pc running xp or 2000. The actual system requirements for rowpro are not that high, so I just started asking around if people had extra old computers. I ended up with 3, including one we were thowing away from work. Using that one and adding some parts from the others, I was able to get XP and rowpro up and running. It is a 460 celeron, so really an old piece of junk, but with 192 megs of ram, it actually runs XP ok, and rowpro is little slow, but perfectly usable. At first I was using the built in video card which was below spec for rowpro (4 megs memory); this meant that I was not able to really run the 3d views, but the overhead 2d view worked well. Wanting all the eye candy, I decided to upgrade the video card, and so for around $35, I popped in a PCI 64 meg card. Once I got the drivers updated, this now runs rowpro perfectly (30-50 fps at the highest display settings). I also added a wifi card to network with my mac, so for $80 and a little aggravation with XP and drivers, I have a perfectly usable rowing dedicated computer. Once I had rowpro running, the first time, I realized I was going to buy it. It is really impossible to go back. I still like looking at the PM3, and often row more consistently when I do so, but rowing can be boring and painful, so the display of rowpro is a lot more fun. The illusion of speed and movement is seductive. There are markers every 10m, so if you want you can time your stroke to 10 mps just by watching the display and timing your stroke. I love having other rowers out there, either my past rows or pace boats, and now I can download and race and see opponents. The PM3 twin and the bar charts are nice and useful; you can row in watts on the PM and in pace on the twin. Maybe I am just weird about this, but I love how your profile, how you and your boat look, is stored with your row. So I am already learning my "opponents" by how they look; one guy has this lime green shirt and flaming red hair, who knows if he really looks like that, but it is fun to pretend anyway. This will be carried over to internet racing and should be fun, and far more personal and interactive than erows or rowpro's 2d swim lane view. I can't tell if I get distracted by watching my rower on screen, and seduced into trying to pace my stroke with him, or if I am just not that regular in my SR, but the only glitch I see in rowpro when I am rowing is that often the rower "anticipates" my stroke to soon, so that he gets ahead of me, and then has to take this long pause while I catch up. Maybe my eyes just get blurry, but I don't see this as much at highter SR when I am really pulling hard, so it may just have difficulty following low SRs (24 and under). The rowing log feature is OK, but not great. It could use some improvement in how it lists and lets you organize your rows. But it is nice to have everything there for you to review, and lets you pull up more detail on your row if you want those details. I would like a field to mark my PBs for example, so I could limit the view to those. I love the addition in 1.7 that lets you right click your rows to export to C2 (but your warmup meters don't go?). Overall, the software is a little ideosyncratic and has some interface problems. But once you get used to those, you mostly spend your time rowing and looking at it, which it does very well. Internet racing isn't really working yet, and the oarbits interface is strange and seems bug filled still. So I wouldn't try that yet unless you are tolerant of those sorts of things. I am having a hard time finding online rows at times I can do. Hopefully, there will be more options in a few weeks/months. I would like to race a serious 2k online against real opponents this winter. My rowing machine has moved around the house over the years, mainly as I renovated the room it was in. But it now has a permanent place, and it is hard to argue with this set up: <img src='http://sorella3.myfastmail.com/rowpro2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Rowpro is great. I would give it a try.

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » October 16th, 2004, 10:01 pm

Nice set up! It looks like you have everything but the dual floor fans and slides. But Santa will be here soon to fix that. I finally was able to log on to RowPro 1.7. I haven't had much time to try out the new and improved internet version. I hope to be on-line doing 10Ks a day next week in order to get in shape for the last Etape. (My last chance to win a green jersey) Cheers, Paul Flack

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 17th, 2004, 12:19 am

Michael, Thanks for the details. I will need to find a second hand computer for the erg like you did, and then will also be interested to try Row Pro.

[old] SteveV · Post by **[old] SteveV** » October 17th, 2004, 10:18 am

RowPro is having a stand at BIRC, so UK rowers will be able to try it out there

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » October 17th, 2004, 10:24 am

Are they going to be at EIRC?

[old] SteveV · Post by **[old] SteveV** » October 17th, 2004, 11:07 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Godfried @ Oct 17 2004, 09:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Are they going to be at EIRC?  </td></tr></table> Not sure ask pete at petel@digitalrowing.com fro more info. I know they are at BIRC, they are planning an erg, computer, RowPro and large plasma screen

[old] grandslam · Post by **[old] grandslam** » October 17th, 2004, 5:57 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (michaelb @ Oct 16 2004, 11:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I am sort of surprised that there hasn't been more excitement/activity related to the release of rowpro 1.7 </td></tr></table> Great Post. The reason I'm not excited yet, is because it is still full of bugs from what I've been reading, and I can't even get it to run when I upgrade from 1.6. However, I'm also putting together a dedicated computer for the erg and rowpro, as well as a stereo system to surround the erg with music. Also, looking at a way to mount the computer monitor on the erg so it's right in front of my face, and mount the computer itself on the slides. This would increase the overall floating weight on the slides, and make for a heavier feel, which I like. Right now I just add a lead weight belt on the erg supports so it doesn't feel so "light", and feels like I get a more solid push off. Lastly, I may design a platform for the slides that sits on half circle supports so the "boat" also will need to be balanced side to side as it's rowed. When finished, I shall have transformed a boring, dead (static), weight machine that one pretends to "row", in the loosest possible definition of the word, into a real off the water "boat" (or as close as you can get to one off the water). Keeping my fingers crossed with Rowpro. Oh the possibilities . . . Jeff Sauter

[old] LacticAcid · Post by **[old] LacticAcid** » October 17th, 2004, 10:03 pm

Hey Michaelb, if RowPro is so great and you suggest I give it a try, please send $99. (cost of RowPro) via PayPal to: haller@snip.net Perhaps then, I can share some of your joy and eventually join you for internet racing! Thanks!

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » October 17th, 2004, 10:12 pm

I don't have an extra $99, but I do have 2 left over junk computers if you are interested. I did a race online today for the first time. After some difficulty getting the race started, it seemed to work fine. It was fun and I pushed faster and harder than I had planned.

[old] LacticAcid · Post by **[old] LacticAcid** » October 17th, 2004, 10:30 pm

Hey Mike! I want the old computers, please e-mail me. haller@snip.net Thanks..

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » October 18th, 2004, 11:44 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (grandslam @ Oct 17 2004, 09:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Also, looking at a way to mount the computer monitor on the erg so it's right in front of my face, and mount the computer itself on the slides. This would increase the overall floating weight on the slides, and make for a heavier feel, which I like. Right now I just add a lead weight belt on the erg supports so it doesn't feel so "light", and feels like I get a more solid push off. Lastly, I may design a platform for the slides that sits on half circle supports so the "boat" also will need to be balanced side to side as it's rowed. Jeff Sauter </td></tr></table> See <a href='http://www.ram-mount.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.ram-mount.com/</a> for a possible mounting solution. There is a rectangular plate that can be drilled to match the screws on the side of the Chain guide and a monitor or laptop arm installed easily. Unfortunately when on slides a laptop moves around a bit more than I like, however on the ground it works very well. The source of "heaviness" should be the flywheel, if you are feeling a difference with a weight belt added it's due to the colliding masses at the catch, not so good for efforts on the water. i.e. the ultimate "heaviness" for you would be to put the erg back on the ground and let the earth rock back and foth underneath you. Erg on, Paul Smith <a href='http://www.ps-sport.net' target='_blank'>http://www.ps-sport.net</a> Home of ErgMonitor and the CBreeze, useful accessories for effective and comfortable training.

[old] SteveV · Post by **[old] SteveV** » October 26th, 2004, 1:44 am

I see RowPro is getting quite popular. loads of races going on. What is unusual is the timing of races, loads of 5:00-6:00 and 10-11:00gmt races seem to be popular. Seems a lot of European homeworkers are buying RowPro. RowPro will be showing off the new software at BIRC and CRASH-B I like the ability to check races and enter/withdraw/schedule races form a web interface, goto www.digitalrowing.com and click on the oarbits link for more details

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » October 26th, 2004, 9:37 am

I haven't been able to log in to the oarbits server for over a week, so hopefully they will fix the profile issues (I have emailed them to fix my profile too). I think glitches in getting the races going is limiting the number of rows online right now. I agree about the odd times so far, I usually row around 23-24 GMT on weekdays, and could do after 12 GMT on weekends, but so far only a few listed rows are at those times. Those times seem to work for Australia though, so part of the fun of rowpro is that I may spend my time rowing "down under". Downloading other peoples data and racing against that has been fun and much less predictable then a pace boat.

[old] SteveV · Post by **[old] SteveV** » October 26th, 2004, 10:12 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (michaelb @ Oct 26 2004, 08:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I haven't been able to log in to the oarbits server for over a week, so hopefully they will fix the profile issues (I have emailed them to fix my profile too). I think glitches in getting the races going is limiting the number of rows online right now. I agree about the odd times so far, I usually row around 23-24 GMT on weekdays, and could do after 12 GMT on weekends, but so far only a few listed rows are at those times. Those times seem to work for Australia though, so part of the fun of rowpro is that I may spend my time rowing "down under". Downloading other peoples data and racing against that has been fun and much less predictable then a pace boat.  </td></tr></table> races seem to start ok most times for me. i think the timing problems will get better as more people sign up, and once the old servers shutdown all the e-rowers will join us, most of them train at more normal times.

[old] ChrisRey · Post by **[old] ChrisRey** » November 9th, 2004, 6:58 am

Hello, Just a little comment on RowPro or maybe on the interface with the PM3. When I was writing some code to talk to the PM3 I found that if at the end of a workout if I used the PM3 'back' button then it crashed my code. I downloaded the RowPro beta and found a similar thing. Is this a bug other people have experienced with with RowPro or their own applications? Regards Chris