I'm doing the rowing program at my college this year, and the one thing I've really been struggling with is getting proper swing/back position on the recovery, especially at the higher rates (28+).
My coach has really been hitting me hard for it, and despite the concentration I've been putting in I can't quite get it.
How can I work on this?
My erg scores are exactly where I want them to be, but I feel like this is really inhibiting proper form on the erg and the water.
Swinging Over the Hips on the Recovery
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tdekoekkoek
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2 things I can think of:
First, make sure you stretch your hamstrings. Sometimes it is due to tight hamstrings that will make your knees want to pop up too soon.
The other thing is do exaggerated exercises to learn the movement. At very low rating, at the finish, come to a stop. go hands first. stop. Then body. stop. then legs. Repeat and then slowly take out the stops and make it a fluid movement. But keep practicing the exaggerated movement at low ratings. Then hopefully when the rating goes up you'll keep the right movement.
Hope this helps,
Trevor
First, make sure you stretch your hamstrings. Sometimes it is due to tight hamstrings that will make your knees want to pop up too soon.
The other thing is do exaggerated exercises to learn the movement. At very low rating, at the finish, come to a stop. go hands first. stop. Then body. stop. then legs. Repeat and then slowly take out the stops and make it a fluid movement. But keep practicing the exaggerated movement at low ratings. Then hopefully when the rating goes up you'll keep the right movement.
Hope this helps,
Trevor
Trevor de Koekkoek: 46yrs, 190lbs
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Re: Swinging Over the Hips on the Recovery
Have someone take a video of you from the side and compare it frame by frame with a similar video of someone demonstrating proper technique. It would not require a camcorder. Most new digital still cameras will take long enough movies to use for this purpose. If you see what you are doing wrong, it is easier to work on correcting it.Shinjin wrote:I'm doing the rowing program at my college this year, and the one thing I've really been struggling with is getting proper swing/back position on the recovery, especially at the higher rates (28+).
My coach has really been hitting me hard for it, and despite the concentration I've been putting in I can't quite get it.
How can I work on this?
My erg scores are exactly where I want them to be, but I feel like this is really inhibiting proper form on the erg and the water.
There was once a great stop frame sequence of Xeno demonstrating the C2, but I wasn't able to find it around anymore. However, there are plenty of others around nowadays.
Bob S.
Re: Swinging Over the Hips on the Recovery
Bob, here are the strokecycles you mentioned of Xeno:Bob S. wrote: There was once a great stop frame sequence of Xeno demonstrating the C2, but I wasn't able to find it around anymore. However, there are plenty of others around nowadays.
Bob S.
On the water
On the C2 erg
Both of these are set up so that you can either hold down the forward (or backward) arrow on your keyboard and see the annimation at full speed, or click on the arrows below the image and watch the stroke one frame at a time.
HTH,
Alissa
Re: Swinging Over the Hips on the Recovery
Thanks, Alissa. That is exactly what I had in mind. I think that the erg video could be very useful to the young man who was asking for advice if he can do a similar frame by frame video of his own erging. There is one item for anyone doing that to note and that is Xeno was rowing at 39 spm in that erg video, so the recovery to drive ratio is much lower than it would be at a training stoke rate.Alissa wrote:
Bob, here are the strokecycles you mentioned of Xeno:
On the water
On the C2 erg
Both of these are set up so that you can either hold down the forward (or backward) arrow on your keyboard and see the annimation at full speed, or click on the arrows below the image and watch the stroke one frame at a time.
HTH,
Alissa
Bob S.
I am a coach, and I see problems with swing a lot.
First, a question: are you talking about erg technique or about on-the-water technique? It matters, because a bad swing on the erg has other consequences than a bad swing on the water.
I assume you are talking about on-the-water rowing.
You have to understand why you should make a proper body swing; when you push away with your legs, you set the oar in motion through the water; in sweep rowing, that's most often the major source of power. When you run out of leg drive (your legs are all the way down), you'll have to keep the blade moving - you swing your upper body and pull your arms, hopefully 'connecting' the shoulder and arm speed with the leg speed.
Now, imagine a weak upper body. The legs start the drive, your hips start the swing, but the core muscles in your torso can't keep up. I see that very often - it leads to a very weak swing, or no swing at all, even though the rower may feel as if they're doing what they're supposed to. If you look at video footage, watch for rotating hips but no corresponding movement in your shoulders. It looks as if you're slouching. Inexperienced rowers tend to wash out, because they're changing their shoulder height without being aware of it.
Typical remedy: a coach says to 'sit up better' and to 'emphasize the swing'. That'll get you a couple of good strokes in, but because the core problem is a weakness in your muscles, the problem will only resurface at double the speed later on in that workout.
I know of only one good way to correct this, but the good thing is that it's a proven way. Add long, slow stroke pieces (16-18 spm), to allow your core muscles to develop. Not high-power (but not too easy, too); the emphasis is on making a good stroke. Make these long pieces - your body will fatigue, but not as much as on a 2K, and it is especially when you get tired that you should focus on sitting up straight.
I'm not advocating that you should RACE with a straight upper body (although there's nothing wrong with that), but in a workout, it trains the right muscles. The proper posture is with your midriff up, sitting up. Imagine I'm hanging a medal around your neck - that proud stance, with your chin up and your body up, that's the position you want to have.
You will learn better to connect your upper body with your lower body if you row without straps on the erg, or with feet out of shoes in the boat.
Combine this with core strengthening exercises, or simple free-weight exercises that train your lower back and abdominal regions.
First, a question: are you talking about erg technique or about on-the-water technique? It matters, because a bad swing on the erg has other consequences than a bad swing on the water.
I assume you are talking about on-the-water rowing.
You have to understand why you should make a proper body swing; when you push away with your legs, you set the oar in motion through the water; in sweep rowing, that's most often the major source of power. When you run out of leg drive (your legs are all the way down), you'll have to keep the blade moving - you swing your upper body and pull your arms, hopefully 'connecting' the shoulder and arm speed with the leg speed.
Now, imagine a weak upper body. The legs start the drive, your hips start the swing, but the core muscles in your torso can't keep up. I see that very often - it leads to a very weak swing, or no swing at all, even though the rower may feel as if they're doing what they're supposed to. If you look at video footage, watch for rotating hips but no corresponding movement in your shoulders. It looks as if you're slouching. Inexperienced rowers tend to wash out, because they're changing their shoulder height without being aware of it.
Typical remedy: a coach says to 'sit up better' and to 'emphasize the swing'. That'll get you a couple of good strokes in, but because the core problem is a weakness in your muscles, the problem will only resurface at double the speed later on in that workout.
I know of only one good way to correct this, but the good thing is that it's a proven way. Add long, slow stroke pieces (16-18 spm), to allow your core muscles to develop. Not high-power (but not too easy, too); the emphasis is on making a good stroke. Make these long pieces - your body will fatigue, but not as much as on a 2K, and it is especially when you get tired that you should focus on sitting up straight.
I'm not advocating that you should RACE with a straight upper body (although there's nothing wrong with that), but in a workout, it trains the right muscles. The proper posture is with your midriff up, sitting up. Imagine I'm hanging a medal around your neck - that proud stance, with your chin up and your body up, that's the position you want to have.
You will learn better to connect your upper body with your lower body if you row without straps on the erg, or with feet out of shoes in the boat.
Combine this with core strengthening exercises, or simple free-weight exercises that train your lower back and abdominal regions.
Thanks a ton, guys, I'll definitely try to implement this in practice.
Those stroke files with Xeno are fantastic, really incredible that he can pull that off at 39 spm. I can actually pull off good form and swing at the lower ratings, but I tend to get very rushed at the higher rates.
When I try to translate that to the higher ratings, where should I put my focus? On duplicating the lower rate work faster, or should I focus on a certain part of the stroke, like getting the hands out as fast as possible while keeping the back toward the bow (or the back of the erg, haha)?
I'll also try working abs more often, and focus on staying straight and tall inside the boat, hopefully build the core I need.
Really some great, great info here. Thanks.
Those stroke files with Xeno are fantastic, really incredible that he can pull that off at 39 spm. I can actually pull off good form and swing at the lower ratings, but I tend to get very rushed at the higher rates.
When I try to translate that to the higher ratings, where should I put my focus? On duplicating the lower rate work faster, or should I focus on a certain part of the stroke, like getting the hands out as fast as possible while keeping the back toward the bow (or the back of the erg, haha)?
I'll also try working abs more often, and focus on staying straight and tall inside the boat, hopefully build the core I need.
Really some great, great info here. Thanks.
Focus on getting it done correctly with low ratings (16-18-20 spm) and then slowly try changing your rate up. Once you believe you can pull a good split time with low ratings (remember, these are not 'good' split times, but 'good for low rates' split times), start bringing the rate up. When the rate goes up, your split time should go down.When I try to translate that to the higher ratings, where should I put my focus? On duplicating the lower rate work faster, or should I focus on a certain part of the stroke, like getting the hands out as fast as possible while keeping the back toward the bow (or the back of the erg, haha)?
Drill in good technique for low rates, and then try to speed up the execution rate.
Good muscles cause good posture. You could try some medicine ball exercises or good old calisthenics.I'll also try working abs more often, and focus on staying straight and tall inside the boat, hopefully build the core I need.