help with 3x2 K and other longer intervals

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » February 13th, 2009, 11:47 am

Hello all. I followed the Pete Plan and got my 2K PB to a (not Earth-shattering, but good for me) 6.52. My

Now I'm onto the 5K Pete Plan (light version - I only have time for 3 sessions per week). I'm stronger on the short intervals, OK on the reps of 1250, 1400 etc but have a problem with the longer distance pieces, especially 3 x 2K.

Last week I did a 7.12 on the first 2K and then died around 1600M on the second. Ended up finishing with a few 750s.

My PB for the 5K is around 18.20, and I'd like to get it to 17.40 in the next 6 months or so. I think if I did a test today I would hit close to 18 minutes, but I still can't figure out pacing for these darn long intervals.

So, after all that rambling, my first question is this: In view of my goal and my 2K time, what should I pace each of the 2Ks in a 3x2K at (with Pete's recommended 4 minutes rest between sets)?

Secondly, how should I pace the longer distance pieces of 4K+ that the Pete Plan 5K version requires? I prefer a consistent pace to negative splits but will take any advice that's offered.

Thanks in advance,

Phil

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » February 13th, 2009, 12:10 pm

4x2K with longer rest is about the same as 5K pace.
I would think 3x2K with 4' rest would be similar so going out at 7:12 was simply too fast. Try 7:20 (1:50 splits same as your 18:20 5K).

For the longer pieces try to do a pace that you can handle. Typically double the distance add 4 seconds to the 500m split. More if you are weaker on endurance, less if you are weaker on power.

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » February 13th, 2009, 12:15 pm

Good advice that's much appreciated. Do you think the goal of dropping my 5K PB to 17.40 is realistic?

Are there any sessions outside of the PP 5K light plan that would be useful to get my 5K time down?

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » February 13th, 2009, 12:59 pm

I think that dropping forty seconds off your 5k time is a little unrealistic - that would equate to holding a 1:46 for the whole 5000 meters, which is only a little bit above your 2k time now. Try hitting the 18:10 or 18:00 mark, then plan for going below that.

As for training for the 5k, I would suggest doing 2x5k, 2x6k, 2x40', and some very very hard interval pieces to get your body used to giving out lots of power over a long time - the Wolverine plan suggests 250m/500m/750m/1000m/750m/500m/250m with equal rest, and then a 3000m/2500m/2000m. Really to get a number like that, you're gonna have to have nine to eleven sessions per week, maybe getting as high as twelve before you try to hit it.

If, however, you can hit a sub 18 5k, you should be able to pull a much faster 2k

jzstiner · Post by **jzstiner** » February 13th, 2009, 1:48 pm

New here also, but I would think that you might have to have a 2km pr of 6:45 to as fast as 6:30 to claim a 17:40.

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » February 13th, 2009, 3:41 pm

Thanks for the advice guys. I set that 2K time of 6.52 a couple of months ago and think I should try to break it in the next couple of weeks to give myself a better approximation of pace for longer sessions.

I have been doing a lot of shorter intervals (e.g. 8 x 500, 10 x 500) with all the splits under 1.40 (with 3 mins rest between sets to ensure maximum power on each rep, as Pete Marston recommended in another forum topic), so maybe I can get down into the mid- to low 6.40s range for the 2K.

For the 5K, I think it's definitely endurance, rather than power, that is the problem.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » April 4th, 2009, 5:02 pm

My 5K training has been going a lot better recently and as it's been months since my best 2K time of 6.52 I decided to do a 2K test yesterday. Managed to get, despite horribly burning lungs and quads, a 6.39.

Thanks to everyone in this post who has given training advice, and to Pete Marston for the structure of the Pete Plan 5k version.

Next up, hopefully a sub-18-minute 5K sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Phil

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » April 4th, 2009, 6:34 pm

Glad to hear it and it's good to see you still have that goal in sight. I would recommend pacing yourself for an 18:10, 18:05, and then during the last 2k, try to go negative if it's feeling good.

konarzewski · Post by **konarzewski** » April 5th, 2009, 2:46 am

The topic of 5k training was discussed recently on the British forum.
http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... =4&t=18643
Pete Marston's comments are, as always, very helpful. One workout he recommends is 6x1k 1R done at 5k pace. For what it's worth, I've been doing 2x3k 6R at 5k pace (mainly because it's a neat half hour workout that fits into my schedule conveniently on Friday mornings). In general, I tackle the longer intervals at around 5k pace with about 6 minutes of active recovery between and find that fairly comfortable. This regimen has produced steady, though modest, improvements in my 5k time.

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » April 30th, 2009, 3:30 pm

A week or so after knocking 40 secs off my 10K PB I did my first 4x2K with 4.30 active rest between sets.

1) 7.15 (included warmup, as I was short on time)

2) 7.07.5

3) 7.07.2

4) 7.02.3

Kept the stroke rate at 26 for all but the last 300M of the final set, to mirror my 10K stroke.

Nothing revolutionary here, but thanks to the advice from the forum my endurance is slowly getting better. Hopefully I can bang out a decent 5K time a few weeks from now.

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » April 30th, 2009, 3:38 pm

And here's my updated signature block so people can make fun of my times accurately...the old one is woefully out of date and even more pitiful!

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » April 30th, 2009, 3:43 pm

Didn't work. here's the actual set of new times.

Forgot to mention that the Pete Plan (regular and 5K versions) continue to be very helpful in increasing endurance and power.

PaulG · Post by **PaulG** » April 30th, 2009, 8:37 pm

I'm not ging to poke fun at any of those times.
One thing does confuse me about your original question. My reading of the 5k Pete Plan says that the first rep of the 3 x 2k is done at the pace of the steady distance and the last is a warm down. The second is a sub maximal test. Maybe harader is better, but it seems like you are doing all three at the same hard pace, but sub sub maximal. I am going to start the lighter version soon and would like to know what others think.

philwhite7 · Post by **philwhite7** » April 30th, 2009, 10:51 pm

Hi Paul. The 4 x 2K I referred to is listed on the main Pete Plan (link below) under the Endurance Intervals subhead.

Toward the bottom of the page there is the subhead: I know everyone is different, but I still want to know what are good times for each of the interval sessions!

Under this Pete has advised: 4 x 2000m = Half a second slower than 5k pb pace (5k + 0.5)

What you wrote about the 3x2K is correct. To boost endurance I've been doing that session differently, and then following Pete's guidance for the 4x2K.

I think the steady state 8 to 10K sessions and the endurance intervals have made a huge difference.

Let me know how you get on with your training. Do you have a time goal in mind?

Phil

Here's the link to the Pete Plan page I've referenced:

http://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/

iain · Post by **iain** » May 1st, 2009, 12:23 pm

PaulG wrote:I'm not ging to poke fun at any of those times.
One thing does confuse me about your original question. My reading of the 5k Pete Plan says that the first rep of the 3 x 2k is done at the pace of the steady distance and the last is a warm down. The second is a sub maximal test. Maybe harader is better, but it seems like you are doing all three at the same hard pace, but sub sub maximal. I am going to start the lighter version soon and would like to know what others think.

You are absolutely correct. I must say that I think the 5k plan gives you the fitness but rather assumes that you have the sphericals to deliver on the test. I wimped a number of times as there is just nothing to prepare you psychologically for the 5k and am yet to keep to plan for a hard 5 or 6k test. I am adding a 2 x 3.5k into my training to try and get set for the mental demands of keeping going on the lactate wave required by the 5 & 6k (no evidence yet on the relative pace, but I was assuming it would be around 6k).

Just a thought from a relative newbie.

- Iain