cold water rowing

No, ergs don't yet float, but some of us do, and here's where you get to discuss that other form of rowing.
sheehc
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Post by sheehc » February 22nd, 2009, 7:05 pm

I'll be sure to let you know by how much, but it's because they do not erg at all.
Not really the case. More to do with infrastructure, coaching, and the people who attend Augusta. First point, you flat out need perspective, no good southern team goes to that Invitational. You don't see GTech, Florida Tech, Jacksonville, etc.... You see College of Charleston, Davidson, etc.. This isn't meant to knock anyone, it is simply acknowledging the competitive level.
Second point, these teams are not particularly fast because they are not designed to be fast. Most of them have minimal support from their schools, minimal coaching, minimal training, and frankly; many of them don't want to be more competitive than what they are. They have a good time, stay fit, and enjoy the outdoors.
Third point, most of the top junior/college programs exist on the west coast, mid-atlantic corridor, northeast, and a few scattered in the mid-west. As such, the presence of athletes with rowing experience is higher in these regions. Moreover, the likelihood of finding a good athlete who's willing to try rowing (due to seeing it, having family that has rowed, friends that rowed, etc...) is greater. This leads to recruiting advantages that many southern teams cannot overcome.

My point, before you use an experience of "destroying" teams to validate one training program/style over another; you should thoroughly consider all the info about what led to the results to begin with. To do otherwise is to sell yourself short as well as the people you competed against, particularly since the face of southern rowing appears to be changing lately. Good luck with your season and enjoy Augusta. If you have the chance I recommend stopping by the BolWeevil restaurant (downtown Augusta, near the river and amphitheater). Haven't been there in years, but I always remember it being pretty good and having great desserts.

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Rockin Roland
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Post by Rockin Roland » March 7th, 2009, 5:43 am

bloomp wrote:

Can you then explain how collegiate and high school crews from the South typically are terrible? Without the winter to force them to erg, they remain on the water far too long and do not get any of the power bonus that indoor training offers.

...... but it's because they do not erg at all.
bloomp, the erg is not the holy grail of land based training for rowing. The importance of erging for OTW rowing is overrated. Unfortunately too many US natioanl and college teams are picked from big erg scores. So many rowers with lower erg scores but with superior technical skills and ability to move a boat are overlooked.

"sheehc" I believe pretty well explained the situation down south. It has nothing to do with spending too much time on the water and neglecting the erg. Well structured rowing programs with quality coaching and suitable demographic population to draw the rowers from makes all the difference.

Don't overdue the erging bloomp because that crank the handle and dump the finish rowing style from erging won't help you much in moving a boat efficiently.
PBs: 2K 6:13.4, 5K 16:32, 6K 19:55, 10K 33:49, 30min 8849m, 60min 17,309m
Caution: Static C2 ergs can ruin your technique and timing for rowing in a boat.
The best thing I ever did to improve my rowing was to sell my C2 and get a Rowperfect.

romad63
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Post by romad63 » March 9th, 2009, 9:29 am

I've yet to meet an OTW rower that loves ergs
and now you have :D

I love both and compete in both. They are two entirely different sports IMO but the way I look at it is every minute spent on the erg helps me on the water.

I'll be the first to admit however I'll take a horrible day on the water (i.e cold, rainy) over a perfect day of erging..
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bloomp
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Post by bloomp » March 15th, 2009, 2:15 pm

Rockin Roland wrote:
bloomp wrote:

Can you then explain how collegiate and high school crews from the South typically are terrible? Without the winter to force them to erg, they remain on the water far too long and do not get any of the power bonus that indoor training offers.

...... but it's because they do not erg at all.
bloomp, the erg is not the holy grail of land based training for rowing. The importance of erging for OTW rowing is overrated. Unfortunately too many US natioanl and college teams are picked from big erg scores. So many rowers with lower erg scores but with superior technical skills and ability to move a boat are overlooked.

"sheehc" I believe pretty well explained the situation down south. It has nothing to do with spending too much time on the water and neglecting the erg. Well structured rowing programs with quality coaching and suitable demographic population to draw the rowers from makes all the difference.

Don't overdue the erging bloomp because that crank the handle and dump the finish rowing style from erging won't help you much in moving a boat efficiently.
I really do beg to differ - without the power and endurance training of the erg in the winter, it would be impossible to build both the proper technique and speed in a boat once water is available. Sure, things like running, stadiums, biking, swimming or lifting can help rowing, but erging is the only substitute when water isn't available.

I know what you say to be true 100% about technique. The majority of coaches realize it's easier to get a basic sense of technique into a rowers mind than dropping the erg times of a very technical rower. I'm a very lightweight/small collegiate rower (143, 5'8), I pull a 7:24.9, I am the stroke of my novice boat because I've rowed for four years now and my technique is well above even many of the varsity on my team (who didn't row in high school). My eight just rowed a 2k in 6:55, which is about 15 seconds below our boat 2k average, and yeah that's because of good technique and the fact that a power/weight ratio is far more important than raw erg scores.

I wasn't trying to say that erging makes for great, smooth rowing - it doesn't and the faster ergers on my team are large and not built right for the boat at all. And they DO bring that rough technique from the erg to the boat. As a coach I would much prefer to find a crew that can get the boat 'running' well, and staying long (I don't coach though), rather than pulling on the erg fastest. But you cannot say the erg shouldn't be the focus of any winter program.

As for the south, our novice 8's 6:55 time was at the Augusta Invitational yesterday - we beat Alabama by 2.6 seconds, NC State by 22 seconds and Duke by a minute. I'd like to think that our time was because we worked very hard all winter, rather than ignoring the erg.

Without good technique, all power is wasted.
24, 166lbs, 5'9
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bloomp
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Post by bloomp » March 15th, 2009, 2:19 pm

romad63 wrote:
I've yet to meet an OTW rower that loves ergs
and now you have :D

I love both and compete in both. They are two entirely different sports IMO but the way I look at it is every minute spent on the erg helps me on the water.

I'll be the first to admit however I'll take a horrible day on the water (i.e cold, rainy) over a perfect day of erging..
I'm not sure where you hail from, but you must not have seen some of the weather that I'm used to. At least with erging you have complete control over the situation, you don't have other rowers rushing you, you don't have to worry about the set, you don't have to focus at all on technique. In rough conditions, unless you have an experienced crew, you're not going to get an effective workout, and you will most likely just frustrate the rowers rather than getting them anywhere.

By rough conditions, I mean white caps, 20+MPH winds, single digit weather or negative wind chill. Rain always is worse in the cold, but normally it will flatten the lake out so I don't mind it.
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Byron Drachman
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Post by Byron Drachman » November 19th, 2009, 3:46 pm

There are PFDs made for kayakers that do not interfere with rowing and are so comfortable that you forget you are wearing one.

Click here for an interesting video on cold water immersion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1xohI3B4Uc

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bw1099
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Post by bw1099 » November 19th, 2009, 9:17 pm

Good video. Thanks.

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