Heart Rate, too high?

MOKO · Post by **MOKO** » March 22nd, 2006, 1:16 am

This might get long...

Last weekend I bought a heart rate monitor. Rowed 25 minutes and was at 166 BPM for the last 20 minutes. Tonight I rowed a 2K to try to check my max heart rate, I got it up to 177. Being 44 yrs. old, 177 is about right using the 220-age formula.

This was a typical workout for me (25 minutes). Trouble is, this is working at 94% of max heart rate. From the little I have read, I may be working out "too hard", do you concur?

Typically I do 25, 30 or 35 minutes 5 days a week, nearly the same intensity for all. I am working to lose just a few pounds, maybe 10, but mainly working on cardio improvement for hiking in the mountains.

Any advise for me? I know I should be doing longer pieces, that will come...

BobD · Post by **BobD** » March 22nd, 2006, 3:20 am

Training HR should be at about 80%-90% of max HR acording to most studies. An easy day 70-80%, a hard day 80-90%. For your purposes this is where you need to be.

If you go higher than 90% you are training in the anaerobic range which means you are using more oxygen than you are taking in. This means that you are ok for a short sprint but will run into a wall at distance and fade completely as your muscles run out of oxygen.

MOKO · Post by **MOKO** » March 22nd, 2006, 3:40 pm

Now you got me thinking, that's always trouble...

If my heart and lungs are going crazy and I can keep it up for 25 to 35 minutes, it seems that I am maximizing my aerobic training for the time I spend, while getting an additional anaerobic workout on top of it. To my untrained eye this looks like a win-win. ...or does it work that way?

I guess it boils down to my wondering how a workout of the same duration at 85% is not as good for me as a workout at 94%, seems odd at first glance.

By the way, my goal is to be able to carry 50 pounds of gear up and down steep trails at 9 to 10 thousand foot elevations. I need strength, and aerobic fitness, to do this for 4 to 6 hours a day...I was capable last year, but this year I want it to be more fun than work.

Any help?

BobD · Post by **BobD** » March 22nd, 2006, 3:48 pm

OK if you don't believe me there are a couple of very good books about Heart Rate Training, the whys and hows. Go to Amazon or your library and read as I did.

25 minutes of max effort cannot be kept up for even 1 hour, but you can do the 1 hour at 80% because all your muscles (and your heart is a muscle too) are getting sufficient oxygen to keep functioning for a much longer period.

Alissa · Post by **Alissa** » March 22nd, 2006, 4:12 pm

Is a 2K a reasonable way to establish your maximum heart rate? I do know that the formula 220-age is only an estimate of maximum heart rate--and can be quite a ways off. I wonder if you need to try to reassess what your maximum heart rate is?

I believe there are methods you can use to try to establish what your maximum (and therefore your various training bands) should be--but I didn't think a 2K was it...

Hopefully someone will be along who can help you with that...

Alissa

BobD · Post by **BobD** » March 22nd, 2006, 4:18 pm

Key is your RESTING Heart Rate.

Look here: http://stevenscreek.com/goodies/hr.shtml

Alissa · Post by **Alissa** » March 22nd, 2006, 5:23 pm

BobD wrote:Key is your RESTING Heart Rate.

Look here: http://stevenscreek.com/goodies/hr.shtml

It looked to me like the calculator on the page you linked to still needs to start with your maximum heart rate (and offers to use one of a couple of formulas if you don't have it). It then uses your your resting heart rate (which you also need to supply to give you rates for various percentages of max).

There's nothing on that page that would tell one how to calculate the actual maximum heart rate needed for an input on that page. (I'm also not clear about why if you're looking for, say, 85% of maximum that you would want to "correct" for resting heart rate, since, per se, you would no longer have 85% of the maximum????)

At any rate, using the calculator on that page (and selecting the formula suggested for a Fit Male (I plugged in a pedestrian resting heart rate of 60), I got this:

Code: Select all

Based on an age of 44 and using the formula 205 - Age/2
Maximum Heart Rate (Calculated) = 183
         % of Maximum      Heart Rate Reserve*
Percent  60 sec. 10 sec.     60 sec. 10 sec.
-------  ------- -------     ------- -------
  100    183.0    30.5       183.0    30.5
   95    173.8    29.0       176.8    29.5
   90    164.7    27.4       170.7    28.4
   85    155.5    25.9       164.5    27.4
   80    146.4    24.4       158.4    26.4
   75    137.2    22.9       152.2    25.4
   70    128.1    21.3       146.1    24.3
   65    118.9    19.8       139.9    23.3
   60    109.8    18.3       133.8    22.3
   55    100.6    16.8       127.6    21.3

* Percent of maximum, corrected for resting heart rate of 60

which suggests that the 220-age & 2K determined number is not your max. I don't think you know your actual MHR yet, but based on this, you're not getting too much above 90%, if at all.

Alissa

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » March 22nd, 2006, 6:30 pm

I don't think a 2k is long enough to get to your max HR. For a race, I think a 5k or a 6k is a better choice and a pretty good test. There are a variety of tests for your max HR that generally involve increasing the intensity of the row over a set of continous intervals until failure. They sound like fun, but I just my max from a 6k race.

I would guess that 177 is below your max HR.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » March 22nd, 2006, 6:38 pm

MOKO wrote:By the way, my goal is to be able to carry 50 pounds of gear up and down steep trails at 9 to 10 thousand foot elevations. I need strength, and aerobic fitness, to do this for 4 to 6 hours a day...I was capable last year, but this year I want it to be more fun than work. :D
Any help?

Get a (chose one):

a) mule
b) burro
c) llama
d) gullible friend

Bob S.

MOKO · Post by **MOKO** » March 22nd, 2006, 11:49 pm

BobD, it wasn't that I didn't believe you, it is that I am ignorant, there, I said it. Dare I ask if you can recommend a good read? Cool calculator by the way, my resting rate is 58.

I've only had this gizmo for 3 days so I thought a question or two was in order.

I'm glad some of you questioned my max using a 2K, I'll pull a bit longer this weekend to try to push it up. Meanwhile the 166 for a half hour feels like a good workout so I bet I'll find my max is a tad higher.

Again, I'm just looking for any help I can get.

Thanks again for the info.

Bob S. I believe I am the gullible friend.

MOKO · Post by **MOKO** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:16 am

Breaking news!!! (as if you still care)

Todays NEW max heart rate for MOKO is 182. Found while doing a fairly middle of the road 30 minute workout. At this rate, by the weekend I'll top 200.

This monitor is going to be a great motivator if nothing else, this is fun!

Yes, the endorphines are flowin'

dougsurf · Post by **dougsurf** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:24 am

michaelb wrote:I don't think a 2k is long enough to get to your max HR. For a race, I think a 5k or a 6k is a better choice and a pretty good test. There are a variety of tests for your max HR that generally involve increasing the intensity of the row over a set of continous intervals until failure. They sound like fun, but I just my max from a 6k race.

I would guess that 177 is below your max HR.

I agree. It is very important to find your true maximum. I think the best way is a step test of 3 minute intervals, no rests, from a moderate pace, adding 30 - 40 W each time, until failure. A 5k or 6k is OK, but I think they can fatigue you in perhaps other ways that end up holding back your HR a bit. The 220-age is almost always very conservative. It is 20 beats off for me. You may find that you are not too far off of your proper training zone after all.

- Doug

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » March 23rd, 2006, 1:31 am

MOKO wrote: Bob S. I believe I am the gullible friend. :roll:

Moko,

Now there is a good honest answer. When I saw your message, it rang a bell, since I live in backpack country - at the foot of the Sierra Nevada on the east side. There is a herd of horses and mules pastured about a mile from our house. The packer that owns them is just waiting until the snow pack melts enough for him to get back into business. That was why I just couldn't resist that little joke. I try to do as much hiking as I can, generally between 8 and 12 thousand feet. However, I stick to a maximum pack weight of 20# - just day pack stuff.

Bob S.

johnnybike · Post by **johnnybike** » March 23rd, 2006, 4:40 am

I think the step test is the only way to go. I personally would not hit my max doing a 5K or 6K and the 2K is too managed to hit a high HR, it has to be an artificial test, at least for me.

Last weekend I tried an all-out 500m after being well warmed up.I was not pulling at my maximum but trying to get up and down the slide as fast as I could. I saw 151 both times I did the test and yet I peaked at 61spm and I was in the high 50s for most of it.

Last night I set a new 60' PB and my average was 150 with a max of 156. The max I have seen on the erg is 159 but I suspect I have a higher MHR, probably more around 164

hjs · Post by **hjs** » March 23rd, 2006, 6:35 am

MOKO wrote:Now you got me thinking, that's always trouble...

If my heart and lungs are going crazy and I can keep it up for 25 to 35 minutes, it seems that I am maximizing my aerobic training for the time I spend, while getting an additional anaerobic workout on top of it. To my untrained eye this looks like a win-win. ...or does it work that way?

I guess it boils down to my wondering how a workout of the same duration at 85% is not as good for me as a workout at 94%, seems odd at first glance.

By the way, my goal is to be able to carry 50 pounds of gear up and down steep trails at 9 to 10 thousand foot elevations. I need strength, and aerobic fitness, to do this for 4 to 6 hours a day...I was capable last year, but this year I want it to be more fun than work.

Any help?

To train on this high a level is not sustainble for a long period of time. You will get injuired and overFatiqued very quickly.
If you goal is to walk in the mountains for several hours per day you should train long and slow, not short and fast, and you also should crosstrain.
Row, bike, walk, run. do weightcircuits. And try to improve the totale duration of your training. That is what you need so that is what you ought to train.

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Heart Rate, too high?

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