Help with slow progression- Is strength training the key?

[karldiesen]

I have been training on the concept2 for soon one and a half years. My problem is that I seem to progress very slowly. My first 2000m I did in 7:12. then I have been training reasonably hard until now. I recently tried another 2k at a pace of 1:45, but half way through I gave up because I was feeling so weak/tired.

My training has been running, cycling, skiing and rowing machine. But the last year I have doing very little strength training. Could this be what brings me down? Is strength training (thinking of around 40 reps) really that important? My pb for 60" is 342m btw.

I know another guy that went from 6:59 to 6:44 in the same time (he's younger than me). But I think I did more endurance training than him.
Or could it be that I don't have the genetics for rowing (rather thin build(68kg) and 5'9.5" tall?

How can I motivate myself to finish a 2000m (alone)and not give up? Rowpro? Music?

[l2ow/\/\C]

hey there!

Eventually you will start to level off and hit a sort of training wall. Their are a few things you can do

You could look into Vo2 max testing and get a feel for your strengths and weaknesses. For example you may find your a great distance rower but you sprint and anaerobic work is lacking. What the Vo2 testing will tell you is what aspects of training you should focus on to be in good "all around" shape

it took me about the same time its seems to have taken you to hit this wall (1 1/2 years rowing) it sounds like you may need to look into doing more anaerobic work. and plan 2k tests in advance so you go into the day knowing "today i will finish my 2k"

remember 2k testing is not always about making the PR (personal record) the 3rd 500 tends to be the toughest one to get through. It is where your body will switch to anaerobic production and your legs will start to burn badly. Good music can help you get through this.... mental visualization can help you prepare for the pain and push through it.

The 2k particularly the last half is a mental game... your body CAN physically finish but your mind is going to scream at you to stop. Sit down and mentally prepare your self for that feeling. You need to commit yourself totally to the 2k

-good luck
James

[hjs]

I have been training on the concept2 for soon one and a half years. My problem is that I seem to progress very slowly. My first 2000m I did in 7:12. then I have been training reasonably hard until now. I recently tried another 2k at a pace of 1:45, but half way through I gave up because I was feeling so weak/tired.

My training has been running, cycling, skiing and rowing machine. But the last year I have doing very little strength training. Could this be what brings me down? Is strength training (thinking of around 40 reps) really that important? My pb for 60" is 342m btw.

I know another guy that went from 6:59 to 6:44 in the same time (he's younger than me). But I think I did more endurance training than him.
Or could it be that I don't have the genetics for rowing (rather thin build(68kg) and 5'9.5" tall?

How can I motivate myself to finish a 2000m (alone)and not give up? Rowpro? Music?

Rowing is a power endurance sport, for you build you are very thin/light, I don,t think you want to bulk up?, but for you rowing that would be very benificial, and for that you should do much lower reps on tyhe weight's. 75 kg is lightweight border, so you have plenty room to build muscle.

[badocter]

How can I motivate myself to finish a 2000m (alone)and not give up? Rowpro? Music?

I vote for Rowpro I make a habit of telling other people in the session what my target is, so it makes it that much more difficult to back off because you know they are watching. I have handled down a few times on solo 2k's, but I have never handled down on a 2k in Rowpro or at a live event. Perhaps an alternative is that you could get someone to cox you through it.

[karldiesen]

on average I have had maybe 2 workouts on the erg per week. Is that too little? Is it true that by gaining weight one gets faster on the erg? Because the muscles can more easily grow?

[yoda]

Strength Training is a way to become more powerful in your stroke, but trying to add muscular size isn't the best way. It was mentioned that the 3rd leg of the 2000 meters is when the burn begins to settle in. Pounding out rep after rep, set after set of squats and leg presses are not going to change that. On the other hand, by teaching the muscles how to handle that burn where the burn seems to settle, would be the way to go. After over 50 years of resistance training there is only one protocol that will do that. That is super slow. 20 second reps, 6 reps, to failure, once a week. You don't need to do anything else other than find a leg press that is as close to the body position on the rower and do super slow.

Many experienced rowers say that weight training is not the way to get faster. I completely disagree with that. Different protocols serve up different results. Pick the right one and progress can be made.

I stand ready for comments.

Yoda

[Stefana]

Journal of Sports Sciences says velocity of reps does not matter.

.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a785361390~db=all

Add www in front of it.

[Cazneau]

What do you mean by a "20 second rep?" I don't know much about resistance training. Are you saying 20 rest between reps? Hold the press for 20 seconds? Please explain.

[romad63]

I believe weight training does and will help. Focused training on the legs especially, squats, presses etc. You don't necessarily need to bulk up in fact I'd recommened going low weight high rep.

That being said you need to keep up the endurance work also. While I am a fan of cross training nothing replaces time on the erg. There's a lot of different training methods find one that works for you and follow it.

Agree with the others it's that 3rd 500 that gets me everytime. For me it's more mental than anything. I go anerobic at about 1300-1400 meters but find if I can power through that till I'm at about 1600 meters my mind says you've only got 400 to go and the adreneline kicks in

[yoda]

Cazneau, A 20 second rep is one that takes 20 seconds to complete. 10 seconds down and 10 seconds up if you're performing an exercise like the leg press. There is no rest between the 6 reps.

Stefana, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If it's that the speed of the rep doesn't make any difference then you need to try doing a standard rep at the usual 3-4 second pace, then try doing a 20 second rep with the same resistance.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that Super Slow is best and only protocol out there. What I'm trying to say is that one can teach the muscle how to continue to perform when that burn seems to be tearing your quads apart.

Yoda

[hjs]

on average I have had maybe 2 workouts on the erg per week. Is that too little? Is it true that by gaining weight one gets faster on the erg? Because the muscles can more easily grow?

If you only row 2 times a week you can,t expect much gain. Crosstraining is ok but to be good at any given sport/exercise the main thing focus should be on doing that.


ps for those who think that the third 500 is the hardest, they should push it a bit more. At 1500m the pain just starts lol

[Stefana]

Yoda, why don't you read the article. Or at least the abstract. I have no doubt that longer reps FEEL different than short reps, the data on HOW that benefits rowers suggests that it does not make a significant differance on performance.

From Journal of Sports Sciences

Abstract
This study investigated the effect of low- and high-velocity resistance training on isokinetic peak torque and anaerobic power output. Eighteen male varsity oarsmen were blocked on peak knee extension torque at 3.14 rad s-1 and assigned to a high-velocity resistance training group (HVR), a low-velocity resistance training group (LVR) or a control group. Subjects trained four times a week for 5 weeks. Each training session included three circuits of 12 stations using variable-resistance hydraulic equipment. The HVR training significantly improved peak torque (P<0.05) in knee extension and flexion at 2.61, 3.14, 3.66 and 4.19 rad s-1. The LVR training produced significant improvements (P<0.05) in peak torque for knee extension and flexion at 0.52, 1.05, 1.57 and 2.61 rad s-1. High positive correlations were found between peak torque and anaerobic power outputs for all groups. However, no significant changes occurred in 15 s power output, average 90 s power output or peak blood lactate in either training group. These results indicate that velocity-specific strength training does not necessarily improve anaerobic power output in a different exercise mode despite the high positive correlation between isokinetic strength and anaerobic power output.

[yoda]

Okay, I read it. It does not explain the speed of the reps used. It does say that the test subjects worked out 4 times a week for 5 weeks. That will not work with Super Slow. I'm suggesting that a person can make gains in performance by working out once a week doing 6-20 second reps, to failure, per exercise. When done that way there is the burn that everyone talks about and it comes into play at about 3.5-4 reps. That burn is exactly the same as the burn in the 3rd leg of a 2000 meter time trial. I did not say that there would be more strength gained by using this method. I did say that it would teach the muscle how to handle and continue to perform during that 3rd leg.

I will tell you that the US Cycling team used Super Slow and made huge gains on it. But they were working out once a week. The riders times dropped signifcantly. And the reason was that they learned how to handle the burn that takes place in the muscle fibre. I know of many folks using this protocol, and have for sometime, that continue to improve working out only once every two weeks.

Contrary to some Super Slow users, it will not build huge muscles. It will not make a person into a world class powerlifter. But when used correctly, and separately from the actual sport endeavor, it will help raise the performance level.

Yoda

[ccwenk]

That burn is exactly the same as the burn in the 3rd leg of a 2000 meter time trial. I did not say that there would be more strength gained by using this method. I did say that it would teach the muscle how to handle and continue to perform during that 3rd leg.

I will tell you that the US Cycling team used Super Slow and made huge gains on it. But they were working out once a week. The riders times dropped signifcantly. And the reason was that they learned how to handle the burn that takes place in the muscle fibre. I know of many folks using this protocol, and have for sometime, that continue to improve working out only once every two weeks.
Yoda

Documentation?

I know that this was in vogue with elite swim coaches when I was training at the UT Austin camp in the mid 90's, but it definitely was not any longer when I was in college through 2001.

To the original poster - I think that the short (and correct) answer has already been given. You are not doing enough work on the erg to progress.

[yoda]

The main reason that Super Slow has not become main stream and used by most folks is that it is difficult. Without a doubt the most difficult protocol out there. It requires focus, controlled breathing, and the ability to almost welcome pain, then absorb it. When I was still competing there was absolutely no way I would use Super Slow. And now, many more years later, there are times when someone will ask for help and I'll advise them not to do Super Slow. Reason"? It would be counter-productive to their particular sport. However, when an older person asks for help, I will almost alway direct them toward Super Slow.

I think the thing is that each person needs to find what will work for them.

Yoda