2008 review: Xeno Müller disappoints.....

[laupi]

I have to admit - I used to like Xeno in his hay days.

Just looked on his website - we can see him there posting himself with a waterrower - pheeew! Concept2 has been his training machine which helped him to fame - now he seemed to have turned his back for $$$$$. Disppoining dishonesty!
He still is trying to sell his services to rowing enthusiasts - but it is a shame to see him with a wrecked and distorted mind. Can someone wake him up and help him to get over it? I would donate 1$ to help him overcome his midlife crisis.....
Any one else who would join in to give him a helping hand?

Comments and insights to this are highly welcome.

[Snail Space]

Concept2 has been his training machine which helped him to fame

No, I think Atlanta 1996 might have had a bit more to do with it!

I too feel sad at the direction that an awesome rower has taken, but I suspect that it merely reflects how little money is too be made from coaching rowing of any sort, especially indoor rowing.

Such a sporting giant in many other arenas would not have to scrape around to support his family, but indoor rowing isn't baseball, football, or basketball. I wish him all the luck in the world in whatever venture he pursues.

Cheers
Dave

[badocter]

At the end of the day he's got to provide for his family and do right by his kids. Its not like I think it is a bad piece of kit, it just isn't a racing or benchmarking machine -- that is just fine because not everyone is interested in racing and benchmarking. I really hope he does well.

[rowland]

I really dislike the water rower that was recently bought at our gym, It seats right next the concept 2 model c. Today I was helping a person interested in learning to row. He first started out on the water rower, then We switch rowers and he tried the concept 2, and he liked the C2 much better.
Telling others about the concept 2 is to my disadvantage, the more people that pick the c2 over the waterrower means I may have to do more waiting for the c2.
In good consciousness, even if water rower gave me a free a rower and paid me to tell you how good it was I couldn't do it. I don't enjoy rowing on it.
You look at the crossfit gyms across the US that they are growing very fast, you don't see them fulling the new gyms with WaterRowers! They only use concept 2. Cross fit members have increased the demand for used rowers
For Price quality ,durability, and customer service concept 2 is the only rower to buy.
I feel Xeno is making a mistake and In the long run will be hurting his business much more than saving it. Maybe his business would do better in Australia where the waterrower may be more popular!!
I am also very disappointed he made the switch. If I was ever in his area, on a trip south, I would have enjoyed seeing his gym and doing one of his work outs with a day pass. Knowing he has fulled his gym with waterrowers, I have lost my excitement about rowing in his gym.

Ps I recently pick up a used Model C for a friend, the plastic handle on the damper was broken, C2 is sending me the part for free, beat that for service.

[Rockin Roland]

Give the guy a break!!!
He's only trying to make a living from his love for rowing. It's not as if he owes Concept 2 any favours. They didn't contribute to his business when he was setting it up so there is no reason for him to remain loyal to C2.

He doesn't like his pupils learning to row on stationary ergs because of the risk of injury, especially the lumbar region. That's why he prefers to use slides under them.

At one stage Xeno was going to be the US distributor for Rowperfect. This would have been a much more suitable erg than the C2 or Waterower for his erg studio. Unfortunately he must of got tired of waiting for it's development to be completed. Hence he saw an opportunity with the Waterower and took it.

At the end of the day an erg will still only be an erg regardless of what boat like qualities it's manufacturer may claim. However, Xeno will always be an Olympic champion regardless of which erg he sits on.

[rowland]

XENO said...

Hello Brian,
Great to hear that you will be a rower. Rowing is great for the entire body. Rowperfect and Concept2 are in my opinion the only machines to choose from if you consider using them for the long run. The huge advantage that Rowperfect has is that its footprint is half the amount of the Concept2 on slides. Rowperfect is a dynamic rowing machine. This means that your flywheel travels back and forth unlike a stationary/static rowing machine such as the Concept2. Rowperfect makes the rowing exercise smoother and gentler on the body and its joints. Because of its size it is possible to take the machine with you in a carry box similar to a bike box. Price wise, I believe the Rowperfect will cost around $2200 shipped. There is a ton more I could write, but family matters are calling.
All the best,
XENO
PS: great that the blog has you interested
5/02/2007 10:29 PM

If Xeno dislikes the fixed rowers so much because of injuries, why is he now recommending the WaterRower, which is a fixed rower. Has he found away to put the WaterRower on slides that I am not aware of.

[laupi]

Looking at the above thread clearly shows that he is corrupted. What a pity! Agree - this must hurt his business. How can anyone believe his training if he changes his mind as soon as someone gives him a little paycheck. Where is the morale?
But maybe this is typical for Americans overall. The financial crisis has shown to the rest of the world already how rotten the US system can get. Worms and bloodsuckers around each and every corner and simple minded people dreaming to have a good live even if highly indebted - it is evidently the american dream in US peoples mind to spend money people do not own. How naive! And how can even an American believe that this could not go wrong?

[tdekoekkoek]

Why are we attacking Xeno here? He has been using Concept 2 for years and now he is using the Water Rower. He is not the only elite class rower who believes the Water Rower is better for your rowing. But that really isn't the point, he's using what he wants to and he has both the right and the authority of knowledge and accomplishment to do so.

If you win some Olympic gold medals, maybe you'd have some room to criticize. Now I'm not knocking anyone who has an opinion, but to do so in a way that disparages a champion is not only uncalled for it is unacceptable. Calling Xeno dishonest without proof is beyond the pale and warrants an apology.

[rowland]

I am not attacking Xeno. If Xeno really believes that now the WaterRower is the best rower, I can live with it, but just a few months before he stated it differently. That is a fact!
I do have a problem with famous people making endorsements to the highest bidders products. Yes, famous people do it all the time, but it doesn't make it right. I feel it is dishonest.

Is Xeno dishonest, he may honestly believe the WaterRower is the best, and financially selling it may be the best for his family. What I am saying is that type of practice, that I stated above is dishonest, making endorsements to the highest bidder.

It is just the same in buying any product, I want a honest review. What if "consumer Review[or report]" was writing up good reviews in their magazine for a product and then you found out they were getting a kick back from the manufacture. You went out and bought the product and it wasn't as good or lived up to what the review said. Would loose respect for the magazine, I certainly would!

[tdekoekkoek]

I am not attacking Xeno. If Xeno really believes that now the WaterRower is the best rower, I can live with it, but just a few months before he stated it differently.

If you are referring to the quote earlier in this thread, that was may of 2007, hardly just a few months ago. And maybe he wasn't familiar with WaterRower at the time. I think it is reasonable to change your mind given 19 months to think it over.

I am not saying Xeno is dishonest

true. But the original poster did say he was dishonest. That's what I was referring to.

You went out and bought the product and it wasn't as good as the review said. Would loose respect for the magazine, I certainly would!

It is your opinion that the product isn't as good as the review. There are at least 2 top level rowers that I can think of just in my club alone that think the water rower is better than the C2. Personally I don't find it as compelling because of the calibration, but the feel does resemble rowing better IMO. BTW, the word is "lose" not "loose"

[Snail Space]

But maybe this is typical for Americans overall.

He is Swiss.

First you overlook his amazing achievements, then you ascribe the wrong nationality. Hey, 'phone me when you get something right.

I'm not a Xeno groupie but I don't like unwarranted diatribes, especially from someone as ill-informed as you seem to be.

I don't know if you recognise it, but you are starting to irritate me.

Cheers
Dave

[michaelb]

Xeno used to post here on the forum fairly regularly, so he is one of us and has been very welcoming and open in discussing his rowing and training ideas as part of the forum. I greatly appreciated that and miss it.

So with that said, we can all be disappointed that he has dropped his C2's for waterrowers. It seemed pretty clear that they are paying him to sponsor them, and so the reason for the switch was mostly based on money. Given that he needs to make a living, I understand that. C2 could possibly have done more to tap into his enthusiasm for promotion. I know Pete from digital rowing went to meet with him last year and set him up with rowpro, so I am doubly disappointed not to see Xeno and the rest of the Iron Oarsman online at some point.

Laupi has a history of trolling for controversy, if I remember correctly, so I wouldn't take Laupi's comments too seriously.

[badocter]

I am not attacking Xeno. If Xeno really believes that now the WaterRower is the best rower, I can live with it, but just a few months before he stated it differently.

If you are referring to the quote earlier in this thread, that was may of 2007, hardly just a few months ago. And maybe he wasn't familiar with WaterRower at the time. I think it is reasonable to change your mind given 19 months to think it over.

People's situation can change a lot in 19 monthes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRBNys6kas
Note that his kid is less than 19 monthes old. If one of my current responsibilities was monitoring an infant, rowing on a jet engine next to him/her would not be in the cards.

[zen cohen]

I have to admit - I used to like Xeno in his hay days.

Just looked on his website - we can see him there posting himself with a waterrower - pheeew! Concept2 has been his training machine which helped him to fame - now he seemed to have turned his back for $$$$$. Disppoining dishonesty!
He still is trying to sell his services to rowing enthusiasts - but it is a shame to see him with a wrecked and distorted mind. Can someone wake him up and help him to get over it? I would donate 1$ to help him overcome his midlife crisis.....
Any one else who would join in to give him a helping hand?

Comments and insights to this are highly welcome.

Your post claiming claim Xeno is dishonest and has a "wrecked and distorted mind" is irresponsible, if not downright defamatory. I also like C2's product, but unlike you I don't presume to know what motivated Xeno to make a change. I suspect it was in part due to financial reasons, but so are many other product endorsements, and to call his honesty and mental health into question over it is just plain pathetic and mean-spirited.

I emailed the link to this thread to Xeno and his reply follows:

I believe that for HIGH miles of rowing, using a dynamic rowing machine is important because it is gentler at the turn around points of the rowing stroke. The choice is Rowperfect once there is one for sale, Concpet2 on sliders, AND WaterRower for the reasons mentioned among others in this link: http://indoor-rowing.blogspot.com/searc ... 20Concept2

I greatly enjoy the staff at WaterRower and I feel very welcomed.

My email is open for anyone to get in touch with me for more information.

Xeno

[Ducatista]

I emailed the link to this thread to Xeno and his reply follows:

You tattled? Good grief.