Rower Creep

meterman · Post by **meterman** » December 19th, 2008, 1:45 pm

Greetings,

I noticed my C2(D) had "crept" forward about 2 feet after accomplishing a 2K Test...

I thought I was halucinating so about a week later I tried a few hard 500's and noticed the machine was indeed inching forward during the drive.

There didn't seem to be much difference whether the front legs were resting (?) on a plastic desk mat or on the wooden floor...

Any recommendations on what to put under the machine to keep it stationary during max effort pieces?

>> OR <<

Would this "creeping forward" point to something wrong in my technique?

M. Podolsky · Post by **M. Podolsky** » December 19th, 2008, 3:00 pm

Usually it creeps in the other direction, unless the front stand has been installed backwards. The longer support should be at the front (wheels facing outward).

meterman · Post by **meterman** » December 19th, 2008, 4:16 pm

Front stand is attached correctly...

GLC-Will · Post by **GLC-Will** » December 19th, 2008, 9:45 pm

Unless I'm mistaken, usually the erg creeping forward indicates you're rushing the slide up to the catch(the point where you're fully compressed and about to drive with the legs) or lungeing forwards at the catch(throwing your body into the catch). The momentum gained from those two problems can move it forward, and it tends to be amplified during high rating pieces like 2ks or 500s.

badocter · Post by **badocter** » December 20th, 2008, 3:02 pm

At the competitions I noticed that they tend to duct tape the legs to the floor to stop it scooting. During the 500m competitions, it is pretty common to have people standing on the front legs of the erg to keep them stationary, as is being done for Rob in the video below. At home I keep a 100 pounds of dumbells stacked on the legs to keep it in place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjY3eKNvzug

Terry S. · Post by **Terry S.** » December 20th, 2008, 4:06 pm

Rug samples ready for discard from a flooring shop. Turn them upside down. I have two under the "feet" of my Model C and experience little if any creep even though on a hardwood floor.

I should add that my slow pace on the erg doesn't generate much wake.

Terry

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » December 20th, 2008, 5:17 pm

meterman wrote:Would this "creeping forward" point to something wrong in my technique?

Any movement is either due to a very slippery floor or a technique problem.

Duct/duck/gaffer tape is a short term solution - two turns round each foot then turn the tape sticky side out and two more turns. The ones in the gym I use have been bolted to the floor.

One long term solution would be a pair of C2 slides, on slides you remain stationary and the erg moves underneath you. (I had a try out at BIRC and found the slides and a Core-Perform seat were fantastic.)

The erg will normally go backwards due to overloading the system at the catch. They don't often got forwards.

How tall and how heavy are you?
What sort of stroke rate are you doing at what pace?

meterman · Post by **meterman** » December 20th, 2008, 10:03 pm

First off, Thank You very much for the replies.

as is being done for Rob in the video below

Thanks for the link - I appreciate your enthusiasm and dedication...

I should add that my slow pace on the erg doesn't generate much wake

That's hilarious! Thanks for the tip on the rug samples...

Any movement is either due to a very slippery floor or a technique problem.

Probably both... The floor where my C2 is set up wouldn't be able to provide much "traction" and I just started rowing 05/27/2008.

How tall and how heavy are you?

5'11" 202lbs (180cm 92Kg) 48 years old.

What sort of stroke rate are you doing at what pace?

28-32R / 1:41.6 - 1:44.4 seems to be about where movement shows up.

O'niel Test results: 1181m, 30R

2K PB: 7:04.2 (1:43.8/26R, 1:44.5/26R, 1:47.1/28R, 1:49.0/32R) I didn't notice any movement during this 2K.

I began to notice the movement while attempting a few sub-7 2k's - which I've DNF'd...

Thanks again for the input - Much appreciated!

Cyclist2 · Post by **Cyclist2** » December 21st, 2008, 1:09 am

At high rates and/or powerful strokes like starts or finishes, my model B walks forward. I'm coming back up the slide fast (no penalty on the erg like in a boat) and really hammering the catch. I just tied the back leg to something immovable and put some of that non-skid stuff (for dishes in cabinets) under the feet. Under normal training loads, or even AT workouts it doesn't do it.

meterman · Post by **meterman** » January 2nd, 2009, 5:58 pm

I'm coming back up the slide fast... and really hammering the catch.

Yep, that would describe what's taking place when my machine moves forward.

Thanks for the info, I'll give it a shot.

meterman · Post by **meterman** » January 15th, 2009, 6:36 pm

Just to update:

I've experimented with slowing down my recovery and this has all but eliminated the movement... even at 28-30R.

Thanks for the inputs and suggestions.

bloomp · Post by **bloomp** » February 16th, 2009, 11:54 am

Ok sorry to light this topic up again, but I have the exact opposite problem:

When doing a 6k piece, 500m@22, 500@26, 500@22, 500@28, 500@22, 500@30, then repeat, I would move the erg about 2 feet backwards during the 28 and 30. This was at a damper setting of 1.

Before that 6k piece, I did some 100's and 250's, at stroke ratings of 52 and 48 respectively, and moved the erg back about four feet so I was hitting the erg behind me by the end of the 250's.

In the first case, the erg was on some plastic mat type flooring, in the second instance, it was on carpet. Is this normal for such a fast rating, or is something wrong with my stroke? I am typically an OTW rower, and know that forward movement would mean rush, which is bad, but this movement would be good for a boat

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » February 16th, 2009, 2:34 pm

bloomp wrote: Is this normal for such a fast rating, or is something wrong with my stroke? I am typically an OTW rower, and know that forward movement would mean rush, which is bad, but this movement would be good for a boat

I've heard people say that this is not a problem but I'm not so sure. You must be applying and impulse to bring the machine towards you. Seems to me that can only be done at the start of the recovery by pulling with your feet on the straps. Doesn't seem too bad but I think you probably could do better by getting your arms out fast and body angle set faster when bringing up the rating. It should require less energy and translate better to a boat.

I'm not really sure about this so I'm curious to hear what others say and if my advice makes any difference. (translation: I probably don't know what the hell I'm talking about)

Cyclist2 · Post by **Cyclist2** » February 17th, 2009, 1:37 am

Remember physics: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Nosmo's analysis sounds about right. Maybe you are driving very hard, then stopping (pulling on the foot straps) before you start the recovery. Do something to stop that rearward momentum: Hands away faster, don't lean back as far, pull the handle to your midriff, not your collarbone, etc.

PaulG · Post by **PaulG** » April 5th, 2009, 8:45 pm

I was at a competition held on a gym floor and noticed during warmups that my erg was creeping forward. Normally I erg on a carpeted floor so this is not apparent duirng training. During the competition someone was standing on the legs. I believe it happened during short intervals of 1:50 at 30-31 SPM. I'm 52 YO, 5'11'' 164 lbs.

So what does this tell me and why is it bad? I can see how it would mess up a boat. If I am applying force at the catch and the erg moves forward under me, the handle is stationary in space, but it is moving out relative to the flywheel. Therefore isn't the force being applied to the handle and accelerating the flywheel? Sort of like being on very sticky slides. BTW my force curve is best described as left leaning Matterhorn with a very sharp peak early in the stroke.

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