Improve My Rowing Times

[romad63]

For what it's worth when racing I usually have a spm of 23-24 for the first 1500 then up to 26-27 at most for my final sprint. Some of it is mental and most of the people I've seen racing are in the 30's. There is something to be said for understroking if you can pull it off, much like on the water.

To be able to pull sub 7's with that low a stroke rating you need to have strong legs. In my case I do a lot of weight training and highly encourage it. It will def improve your times.

[Nosmo]

I've also noticed on all of my steady state rows that it takes a while for me to start feeling good.

I wonder if this is because you guys don't warm up enough. It can take a long time to warm up if you are going at a moderate steady state. I do a 2-3K warm up for my steady state workouts. Did a 2K WU for my last half marathon.
To warm up I do intermittant intensity (increasing duration and pace) with easy rowing in between until I'm going a bit faster then my planed pace for 500m or so. So If I'm planning on doing say 60' at say a 1:58, I'll start out with a 10 strokes at about 2:00, row easy do 15 strokes at about the same pace then continue to do more strokes and increase the pace until I'm doing 400-500m at a 1:55 or so. With recovery inbetween these efforts it is not too strenuous and I the effort feels pretty constant from the start until I start to get tired.

[Ballgame]

I suggest that you try to do steady rows (no faster than 2:10 at the moment) for a week or so at ratings of no more than 23 at increasing distance (try to go further on each one) until you manage 12k without stopping and have done 3 consecutive days of 10k or more. From there you could start the full PP, but set initial targets for the intervals that you think you could do without the rests so that you get used to the volume of rowing required.

Iain,

So I'm going to try to do at least 10k for the next 3 days (up to 12k) to see if I can handle the volume. We'll see how it goes. I may not try to really push the pace for the first few weeks. My main concern is that I don't overtrain or risk injury. As much as I want to go sub 7' by February it's not the end of the world if I don't. I don't want to get injured and have to shelf my training, especially at this point because I am really getting into it and finding that I need to feed my erg addiction each day.

What did you mean by "set initial targets for the intervals..." above? Does that mean that in week 1, for instance, that I should not do the 8x500 with 3:30 rest and just row 4k? I am a bit confused. Also, what did you mean by people who try to push the intervals too quickly early on? What should I do differently?

[iain]

I'm going to try to do at least 10k for the next 3 days (up to 12k) to see if I can handle the volume. We'll see how it goes. I may not try to really push the pace for the first few weeks. My main concern is that I don't overtrain or risk injury. As much as I want to go sub 7' by February it's not the end of the world if I don't. I don't want to get injured and have to shelf my training, especially at this point because I am really getting into it and finding that I need to feed my erg addiction each day.

What did you mean by "set initial targets for the intervals..." above? Does that mean that in week 1, for instance, that I should not do the 8x500 with 3:30 rest and just row 4k? I am a bit confused. Also, what did you mean by people who try to push the intervals too quickly early on? What should I do differently?

I hope it goes well. In any event, thaose long rowswill be a great start to any training plan.

Re targets, Pete suggests a pace that you could do teh whole intervals at without a break, actually doing them this way would be a very hard week to launch in with. The intention is that for most of the first cycle (and to a decreasing extent cycle 2 & 3), most of the intervals are not pushing the limits. That would suggest around 2:00/500m for the short intervals and 2:10 for the long intervals. But given your timetable, I would try the 8x500 at 1:58 and 5x1500 at 2:08.

Strictly (except for the speed pyramid), the instructions are only go faster on the last interval. I would suggest that on the 8x500 you try and do the first 5 at exactly the chosen target pace (you need the precision as the times get harder, so this is good practice), if the 5th is easy, speed up the 6th a little (I usually just try and stick to the pace without slowing if I am ahead of schedule as I am usually quicker than achievable targets), do the 7th at a faster pace that seems comfortable and go for it in the last interval including a full sprint for atleast the last 200m. On the 1500 you could speed up the penultimate one a little.

The majority of PPers set a fast target for their initial cycle based on what they think they can do and then speed up if they can. They similarly ignore the time from the previous cycle if they think they can go significantly faster. Doing it the suggested way allows you to get used to intervals and train at near maximum for the final intervals, a useful stretch.

- Iain

[Ballgame]

So I did my first 10k row today at an average 500/m pace of 2:16.2. It was 3,500m and 18 minutes longer than I ever rowed before. From an endurance/cardiovascular standpoint it was not difficult. However, at about 7k I really began to feel it in my glutes. While I could have kept going before 10k my glutes definitely would have given out before my breath. I was initially going to try to go for a 2:10 pace but figured since I never rowed that far before I might dial it back. At this point, I think the long rows are more about building my endurance and logging the distance rather than speed. I can focus more on speed during the intervals. In fact, I kind of feel like I can focus less on speed for the next 6 weeks or so and then focus more the last 4 weeks before the race. Is this an accurate assessment?

I am going to try 11k tomorrow and 12k on Saturday, rest Sunday and jump into the full PP on Monday.

[M. Podolsky]

Here's an example of someone your age who went from 7:57 on Sept 11 to 6:56 on Nov 29:

http://www.gareththomas.com/lifeblog/

He talks about his training, and it looks like he's doing a good mix of intervals and distance (about 250,000m per month). He also seems to be pushing hard during most sessions - always trying to meet or beat a goal.

[Ballgame]

That's a great link and blog - I will use it as motivation. Thanks!

I decided just to go ahead and jump into the full PP today and get it over with. Did the 8x500m interval with the following splits:

1:58.5
1:58.2
1:58.3
1:57.9
1:58.2
1:58.1
1:57.8
1:40.8

A little disappointed that my last 500m wasn't a little quicker. I think I have a little work to do to get back to the 1:31 range I was at in 2006.

[hjs]

That's a great link and blog - I will use it as motivation. Thanks!

I decided just to go ahead and jump into the full PP today and get it over with. Did the 8x500m interval with the following splits:

1:58.5
1:58.2
1:58.3
1:57.9
1:58.2
1:58.1
1:57.8
1:40.8

A little disappointed that my last 500m wasn't a little quicker. I think I have a little work to do to get back to the 1:31 range I was at in 2006.

This is not the way to do this, if you can do the last one so much faster the first 7 are done way to slow.

[Ballgame]

Perhaps, but the Pete Plan specifically says to do a time which you feel like you can complete for the workout even if this is slower than what you can do in the early cycles. This target should be rowed for the first 7 intervals and the last should be done as fast as possible. This was literally my first workout on the PP. Iain had recommended starting with a target of 1:58 for this workout (see above). My average time for the 8 was 1:55 which means next week that should be my target for the first 7 intervals. Am I interpreting the PP incorrectly?

[M. Podolsky]

Iain had recommended starting with a target of 1:58 for this workout (see above). My average time for the 8 was 1:55 which means next week that should be my target for the first 7 intervals. Am I interpreting the PP incorrectly?

Way too conservative. Since you were able to do the last interval at 1:40.8, a pace of 1:55 kind of defeats the purpose of 500m intervals. They should be hard work. I'm not going to suggest a target pace, because it's probably good for you to find your own at this point. It will take you a very long time if you increase by 1/7 of the improvement in the 8th interval. You'll get there a lot sooner by estimating how many times you could have repeated that 1:40.8 interval, even if you attempt a pace that turns out to be a little faster than you can hold for 8 reps.

[Ballgame]

So I rowed 8000m this morning @ an average pace of 2:07.8. My final 500m was done @ about 1:57. What should I try to do my 5x1500 intervals @ tomorrow? I get 5 minutes rest in between each interval.

[Bill Moore]

I'd try 2:01 for your 5x1,500 and next time do 1:50 for the 8x500.

Settling in to your first paces on these intervals can be tough, but once you find your groove you'll have the confidence to push it. Right now, you're stuck between going too slow to start vs. going out too fast and not being able to complete the workout. It's better to finish the workout completely, so a more conservative approach works.

The times I'm suggesting are similar to where I'll be starting these intervals this week. Yesterday's workout was 12k @ 2:07.4 and the times I suggested will be my goal paces this week. I'm starting back on the WP after 3 years away from it, and I have a database of my workouts that I'm using to predict my goal paces as I start back.

Good luck.

[Ballgame]

[quote="Bill Moore"]I'd try 2:01 for your 5x1,500 and next time do 1:50 for the 8x500.

I did the 5x1,500 this morning with a target pace of 2:00. My splits were:

2:00.2 @ 28 SPM
1:59.6 @ 29 SPM
1:58.6 @ 29 SPM
1:58.4 @ 28 SPM
1:57.0 @ 29 SPM

I tried to blow it out on the last 1,500m and experienced the "fly-and-die" effect. I was at about 1:47 for the first 500m and then the anchor went out for the next 500. I rallied and kept it around 1:55-6 for the final 500m but I was tapped out for that middle part.

Overall I felt pretty good and definitely stronger as the workout progressed. The 5 minutes rest definitely allows the heart rate to recover.

[Bill Moore]

Good job except for the last interval. The goal for the longer intervals (Level 2 in the WP) is to have a sustained effort for the entire interval, with limited variability between sets and even stroke to stroke if you can.

Pete says to blow it out on the last one, but you had a 6 minute interval to complete and 1:47 was very aggressive. This isn't a race pace interval workout. I'd try negative splitting if you want to do that next time, and save it for the last 500 if you must.

A 1:58 goal pace will be a good challenge for the next time you do this. It should also get rid of your desire to put the hammer down with 1,500 left and work to get a solid 1:58 effort out of the last set. If you're doing these every three weeks, you should be able to knock off about 1 second off your goal pace each time you do this as you get used to these workouts. Eventually, the progress will slow, but for the next 3-4 times, a 1 second drop won't be too difficult.

[Ballgame]

Thanks for the suggestions. I am still learning and trying to understand how to follow an effective training regimen. In hindsight, 1:47 was definitely too aggressive.

Just so I understand, negative splits on the last interval would be something like:

1:58
1:54
1:52

Also, not that anybody really cares, but I decided to create a blog to track my progress: http://ergingadventures.wordpress.com/

I was inspired to do so after seeing the blog that was posted earlier in the thread. Even though I'll probably be the only one reading it, I think it will be a good record of how I am doing.