Water vs Erg

leetleone · Post by **leetleone** » September 29th, 2008, 3:27 pm

I just joined a rowing club and Sat. was my 3rd time out in an 8 person boat. I am having a problem between how I row in the boat and how I row on the erg. On the erg I end up bending slightly backwards with the bar against my stomach when I end the catch. When I am in the boat and do this my paddle is way too far in front and I have a hard time getting it out of the water and into position for the catch. Is there some kind of reference point I should be using to know when to stop pulling and get the paddle out of the water? My coach keeps saying "watch the shoulders in front of you" and I do but I can't get synchronized regarding getting the oar out of the water. My coach says one day "the heavens will part and you will then get it." I think my form on the erg is negatively influencing my form on the water. I only am on the boat only once a week on Sat. morning but I erg at the gym 5 days a week. HELP!

jamesg · Post by **jamesg** » September 30th, 2008, 4:46 am

In an 8 coach will probably want you to do some backstop paddling, arms only and blades square, adding feather and a little swing later.

You can also try the simple action - with boat stationary and on backstop with a straight back, shoulders down and relaxed, elbows in and at 90°, flat wrists and blade square - of dropping and lifting your hands, again and again. Then add some feather with the inside hand only. Stay relaxed, there's nothing worse than stiffness afloat.

If the water's not too cold, you could try some sculling, but in a tub or rumtum or whatever they're called where you are, or even a dinghy, not an Olympic 1x. You will soon realise how important it is to get the blades out of the water, and no doubt learn to do so.

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » October 8th, 2008, 5:26 pm

A stationary erg will do very little for your technique in a boat. The differences between the two are fat too great. Hence the best thing for you to do is to get a set of slides. You'll find that slides underneath your erg go some way to preparing yourself technically for the water. You'll still need to learn the oar handling skills and how to weight your body and feel for the balance. That will only come from spending time on the water.

Good coaching is critical to how fast and well you learn correct technique in a boat. Otherwise you'll bring many of the bad habits that people develope, from spending too much time on a stationary erg, into the boat to destabilize it.

Erging will have a tendency to make you incorrectly use too much upper body at the first part of the stroke in the boat and then finish too early. The most important thing for starters in a boat is to get all your body weight onto your feet(sitting up straight) while at the same time totally relaxing your arms and upper body at the catch. If you can't get that bit right then you'll have a horrid time in the boat.

Once you get it in a boat then you'll wonder why anyone would want to bother with an erg.

tomhz · Post by **tomhz** » October 9th, 2008, 4:46 pm

Rockin Roland wrote:I've yet to meet an OTW rower that loves ergs

We haven't met but I am one.

Tom

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » October 9th, 2008, 8:55 pm

tomhz wrote:
Rockin Roland wrote:I've yet to meet an OTW rower that loves ergs
We haven't met but I am one.

Tom

\

Me too, but I love the boat more!

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » October 11th, 2008, 5:40 am

Occasional on water rowers don't count.

Those that have spent time on the water, to obtain the skills to seemingly effortlessly glide a boat accross the water, never look forward to the heavy metal grind of a boring erg.

Ergs were designed as punishment for those that can't get out on the water.

tomhz · Post by **tomhz** » October 11th, 2008, 7:11 pm

Rockin Roland wrote:Occasional on water rowers don't count.

Those that have spent time on the water, to obtain the skills to seemingly effortlessly glide a boat accross the water, never look forward to the heavy metal grind of a boring erg.

I have been there. I rowed for 3 years, 5-6 days/week in 2-, 4- and 8. I felt the same joy as you. Still, I like the erg. It is just another sport. I like the reproducibility of my efforts and the accurate relation between form, power, endurance and outcome. Then the ability to erg online against fellow addicts and the fun is complete.

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » October 12th, 2008, 5:41 am

tomhz wrote: Then the ability to erg online against fellow addicts and the fun is complete.

I assume you use Rowpro? I have also used Rowpro for a number of years but am now looking at getting Gym edition Rowpro for our rowing club. I intend to use the venue racing function offline at our rowing club for time trial crew selection purposes. I intend to connect 4 ergs, each on seperate slides, via USB hub, to the one computer, for local venue racing amoungst our club members. There would be an audience watching. This would be part of crew selection process.

I would like to hear from anyone who has done this before and how successful and reliable this may be?

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » October 12th, 2008, 11:38 am

Rockin Roland wrote: I would like to hear from anyone who has done this before and how successful and reliable this may be?

You don't need RowPro to do that. You can do it for free with a Windows laptop, USB hub and four USB cables.

http://www.concept2.com/us/service/soft ... tup324.exe
http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... BSetup.pdf
http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... ueHelp.htm

tomhz · Post by **tomhz** » October 12th, 2008, 2:15 pm

Citroen wrote:
Rockin Roland wrote: I would like to hear from anyone who has done this before and how successful and reliable this may be?
You don't need RowPro to do that. You can do it for free with a Windows laptop, USB hub and four USB cables.

http://www.concept2.com/us/service/soft ... tup324.exe
http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... BSetup.pdf
http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... ueHelp.htm

That is right. This is Concept 2's own Venue race software. It is used on all big venue races. It is free.
Rowpro Gym Edition costs you about $100-$150/year, depending on the number of of ergs you want to connect. It has much better and more accurate graphics than C2's Venue Race software. When you are sprinting for the finish you can see exactly the pace of your opponents and the distance to them.
Another feature of the Gym edition is the ability to combine erg into 2x's, 4x's and 8x's. I tested this with two 2x's and it worked fine.

Tom

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » October 12th, 2008, 5:04 pm

Rockin Roland wrote:Occasional on water rowers don't count.

Those that have spent time on the water, to obtain the skills to seemingly effortlessly glide a boat accross the water, never look forward to the heavy metal grind of a boring erg.

Ergs were designed as punishment for those that can't get out on the water.

I've spent a lot of time on the water. This year 7 OTW races, fastest time in six of those, 4 first places, two second places due to age handicap. 7th race was today and someone was faster but I may have beating him with the age handicap but I didn't stick aroundlong engouh to find out. Last year 3 firsts, 2 seconds. At 5'7" and under 150 lbs, I'm not doing this on pure power--it is because I row well.

This spring summer I was rowing about 100 KM/ week on the water. I like that I can get on the erg and get a good workout in about an hour, as opposed to the additional 80 minutes in bike riding to and from the boat house, getting the boat in the water and washing it afterward. I'd rather ride my bike (if it was light) or row but I still look forward to the erg workouts.

johnlvs2run · Post by **johnlvs2run** » October 12th, 2008, 7:20 pm

Nosmo wrote:I'd rather ride my bike (if it was light)

Is it heavy?

How long does it take to put the boat in the water, and then put the boat away afterwards?

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » October 12th, 2008, 10:47 pm

John Rupp wrote:
How long does it take to put the boat in the water, and then put the boat away afterwards?

Rigging for crew changes and conditions, changing shoes, footstretchers, connecting cox boxes etc plus cleaning the boat after use can swallow up a lot of your time. It's all part of the process of getting as much enjoyment out of the sport as possible.

Alternatively, you can jump on an erg and just go.......until you get bored.... or tired.... or both..... but then you have to try and convince yourself that you need to do it again the next day.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » October 12th, 2008, 10:48 pm

John Rupp wrote:
Nosmo wrote:I'd rather ride my bike (if it was light)
Is it heavy?

Guess I deserved that one! This days I workout before sun up so a bike ride is not that much fun.

John Rupp wrote: How long does it take to put the boat in the water, and then put the boat away afterwards?

In practice it is about 15 minutes to get the boat in the water and 20-25 to get it out. But it depends on who else is around. IF someone else is going out when I come in then there is less stuff I have to take care of so that can save a bunch of time. The set up at the lake right now is not ideal. Our boat house is being renovated. There are three locks --the boat enclosue, the dock and the "boathouse" (which just stores oars, motors for the launches and other stuff right now).

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » October 12th, 2008, 11:11 pm

tomhz wrote:
It has much better and more accurate graphics than C2's Venue Race software. When you are sprinting for the finish you can see exactly the pace of your opponents and the distance to them.
Another feature of the Gym edition is the ability to combine erg into 2x's, 4x's and 8x's. I tested this with two 2x's and it worked fine.

Tom

Please tell me more? How do you create a double scull or quad with Rowpro Gym edition? Does the software average the output of each crew to show only one reading for each crew or does it still show each rower as an individual on the monitor and in the results/report? It would be excellent if it showed combined crew efforts pitting one crew against another.

The free C2 venue racing software is just another form of e-row. The graphics are very basic and impersonal with little to motivate people, unlike Rowpro.

Rowpro 2X & 4X could be just the kind of thing I'm looking for to create more interest in erg time trials amoungst our members at the rowing club. At the moment if you dare mention the word erg then suddenly you are the only one left standing there.