Pushing the stretcher with toes or heels.

[igoeja]

Linked is an article regarding toe/heel technique. Personally, seems to make a big difference in my erg, 1-2 seconds improvement in in pace per 500M. For me, the issue was getting my heels down in the second half of the stroke.

http://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_2008_files ... News07.pdf

[John Hendrie]

Thanx for the link. I have always wondered about toes vs heels and this provides an excellent explanation of the mechanics involved.

[Citroen]

Excellent article which explains how you can't drive off the heels due to the achilles tendon.

It's much the same pushing a bicycle pedal. That's why you mount the cleats under the ball of the foot.

[johnlvs2run]

http://www.biorow.com/RBN_en_2008_files ... News07.pdf

Conclusion: It is necessary to push the stretcher with toes at catch and with heels during the second half of the drive. The ability to shift the pressure smoothly and coordinate it with the trunk movement depends on the rower’s skill and is very important for effective rowing technique.

Nice article. Thanks.

[Bob S.]

I think that the use of the word "toes" in that article is sheer nonsense. The illustration clearly shows that the drive is from the ball of the foot — very different from going up on one's toes.

As Dougie mentioned, bicycle cleats are under the ball of the foot — they are not under the toes.

This is rowing fer chrissake, not ballet dancing!

Bob S.

[Snail Space]

I think that the use of the word "toes" in that article is sheer nonsense. The illustration clearly shows that the drive is from the ball of the foot — very different from going up on one's toes.

As Dougie mentioned, bicycle cleats are under the ball of the foot — they are not under the toes.

This is rowing fer chrissake, not ballet dancing!

Bob S.

Pedant

[Nosmo]

As Dougie mentioned, bicycle cleats are under the ball of the foot — they are not under the toes.

FIY, There is now a school of thought that is putting the cleat at mid arch. There are shoes available with the cleat much further back. They say it decreases peak acceleration but increases top end speed and helps at the highest power, and reduces knee problems. Don't have an opinion about this myself but a small subset of riders swear by the change. Small people don't like it too much because it increases toe wheel overlap substantially.

[johnlvs2run]

Small people don't like it too much because it increases toe wheel overlap substantially.

It seems that would be more of an issue for those with bigger feet (or longer toes).

Also more of an issue with bikes that have insignificant trail, i.e. bikes that turn on a dime but don't have much stability.

[Bob S.]

I think that the use of the word "toes" in that article is sheer nonsense. The illustration clearly shows that the drive is from the ball of the foot — very different from going up on one's toes.

As Dougie mentioned, bicycle cleats are under the ball of the foot — they are not under the toes.

This is rowing fer chrissake, not ballet dancing!

Bob S.

Pedant

Yeah. Do you have a f**king issue with that? I brought it up mainly because, awhile ago, the TSO seemed to go on and on about the involvement of the toes and it was my impression that he meant using the toes as distinct from the ball of the foot. I may have been wrong on that. I was never really quite sure what he was trying to say.

Bob S.

[PaulS]

I think that the use of the word "toes" in that article is sheer nonsense. The illustration clearly shows that the drive is from the ball of the foot — very different from going up on one's toes.

As Dougie mentioned, bicycle cleats are under the ball of the foot — they are not under the toes.

This is rowing fer chrissake, not ballet dancing!

Bob S.

Pedant

Yeah. Do you have a f**king issue with that? I brought it up mainly because, awhile ago, the TSO seemed to go on and on about the involvement of the toes and it was my impression that he meant using the toes as distinct from the ball of the foot. I may have been wrong on that. I was never really quite sure what he was trying to say.

Bob S.

Once again I must suggest decaffeinated brands can be just as tasty as the real thing, to my friend.

Oh, and this is hardly a new idea, even if it takes many a long time to catch on, listen up, or pay attention (as the case may be).

[Citroen]

... There is now a school of thought that is putting the cleat at mid arch. There are shoes available with the cleat much further back. ...

I won't be doing that, I won't even experiment with doing that. I had a very bad accident when I got the wrong foot down on a roundabout (traffic circle) in Spain - because our European neighbours drive on the wrong side of the street (which ultimately put me in the hospital for a week).

[ranger]

Pedant

Yeah. Do you have a f**king issue with that? I brought it up mainly because, awhile ago, the TSO seemed to go on and on about the involvement of the toes and it was my impression that he meant using the toes as distinct from the ball of the foot. I may have been wrong on that. I was never really quite sure what he was trying to say.

Bob S.

Once again I must suggest decaffeinated brands can be just as tasty as the real thing, to my friend.

Oh, and this is hardly a new idea, even if it takes many a long time to catch on, listen up, or pay attention (as the case may be).

Yes, I think the article explains very clearly what most people do when they row.

And yes, I do the oppposite.

The difference for me (in doing the opposite) is a quite a bit, several seconds per 500m.

Driving off your toes and finishing on your heels reduces the peak power of your stroke, moves that peak power to the center of the drive, and flattens your force curve, while reducing the overall power of your stroke considerably.

I don't prefer this.

Like PaulS, I prefer to have a poweful stroke and an early and high peak power.

Driving off your heels and then pressing down with your foot in the center of the drive (before you pull with your back), lengthens the leg drive, delays the back more effectively, and reduces the angle at the hip in the center of the drive (when you open your back) and at the finish (when you pull with your arms).

Yes, driving off your heels does indeed flex the knee, pretty severely.

Yes, it is indeed hard to get the heels down at the catch.

Yes, pulling up on the handle is indeed a danger, if you drive off your heels.

But if you can weather the stress on the knee, muster the flexibility to get those heels down, and remain sufficiently relaxed (in the shoulders) and upright (with the back) at the catch so that the handle comes out of the catch low and level, rather than torquing upward, it is a much more effective and efficient way to do the rowing stroke.

IMHO

Oh, BTW.

Yes, I use my toes, not just the balls of my feet.

Makes a _ton_ of difference.

(Being a sport, rowing is an art, for f**ks sake, up on your toes, like tennis, basketball, or ballet, not a slog around the park on your heels).

I now pull 13.5 SPI, as a 57-year-old lightweight.

It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

Catching the wheel with your heels is a very quick, solid, powerful connection; and if you do, there is no delay in getting the heels down.

They are down from the start!

Try it.

You'll like it.

ranger

[PaulS]

See what you have gone and caused, Dougie?!

[Citroen]

See what you have gone and caused, Dougie?!

Not me. It was Chris Rowe who banished him to his diary on the UK forum.

[Bob S.]

Once again I must suggest decaffeinated brands can be just as tasty as the real thing, to my friend.

No stimulants needed Paul. I am just an ornery, old so-and-so (supply your own expletive), doing what comes naturally.

Bob S.