I like my slides - yes or no

[tbartman]

On that note, I used my Core Perform seat unlocked on the slides for the first time last night. Has anyone else noticed that it seemed MUCH easier to stay balanced on the CP with slides than without?

Before I got the CP (when I had no slides) I asked on this board how unstable the CP made it, as compared to on the water. Paul S felt that the CP felt more unstable - i.e. if you could balance on the CP, you'd do great on the water (partly due to the length of the oars balancing you like the bar a tightrope walker uses). But now that I've used it on the slides, I also wonder how destabilizing it is to move your whole body back and forth and have to change direction, which is eliminated on the slides. It seemed like as long as you can sit on a chair and not fall off, then sitting on an unlocked CP, stationary in space as the erg moves under you on slides, is about the same. All in all, I felt like it really felt like in the boat with the combo (CP and slides).

[johnlvs2run]

How much do you think it takes off your pace? On my slower work (2:05-ish), I feel like it is just as hard to pull this either on or off the slides, but on my faster work (1:40-ish), I feel like I can go 2-3s/500m faster on the slides for the same effort. Any thoughts/data? This will matter in terms of racing (without slides), since my slide paces may not translate to race-day speeds.

I did quite a few tests of this when I first got the slides, i.e. before I'd had much practice in using them.

My times on slides were:

1) About the same doing 10 second sprints, though the slides had a sharp improvement curve to catch up;

2) 1.5 to 2 seconds faster per 500m for 1 minute reps;

3) 3+ seconds faster per 500m for a 2k.

The 2k was the longest distance where I tested the difference. I did 2x 2k on the slides more than 12 seconds faster than 1 rep on the erg. Based on these things, my times on the slides are comparatively faster the longer the distance, as compared to the erg. Some of this might be based on the start, where I get a quite good start on the erg (as am used to it) and now a similar start on the slides, though this has improved considerably with some practice.

The start aside, I've found the slides to be at least 3 seconds faster than the erg per 500 meters, which I attribute to the slides being lighter than body weight and thus easier to move back and forth more quickly with the same energy expenditure over distance. The heavier the rower, the greater the difference in weight, and the faster times should be on the slides than the erg. For comparisons, it is important to keep the meters per stroke the same, whether on slides or the erg.

[scribewicz]

I don't have slides (yet) do I don't know if this would work, but how about
getting a 2 by 4 (lumber) and cutting it to size in order to wedge the slides in place. From the looks of the picture of the slides you'd need 4 pieces of wood cut to the exact dimension between the end of the slide and the crosspiece that the erg sits on.

Once again, I don't have the slides so I don't know if tha'd be enough.

Peace, Steve

[Nosmo]

I don't have slides (yet) do I don't know if this would work, but how about
getting a 2 by 4 (lumber) and cutting it to size in order to wedge the slides in place. From the looks of the picture of the slides you'd need 4 pieces of wood cut to the exact dimension between the end of the slide and the crosspiece that the erg sits on.

Once again, I don't have the slides so I don't know if tha'd be enough.

Peace, Steve

You'd only need two pieces. Hold either the front legs or the back legs and neither will move.

[PaulS]

I don't have slides (yet) do I don't know if this would work, but how about
getting a 2 by 4 (lumber) and cutting it to size in order to wedge the slides in place. From the looks of the picture of the slides you'd need 4 pieces of wood cut to the exact dimension between the end of the slide and the crosspiece that the erg sits on.

Once again, I don't have the slides so I don't know if tha'd be enough.

Peace, Steve

You'd only need two pieces. Hold either the front legs or the back legs and neither will move.

Well, this is exactly the process which I progressed through with the blocks I constructed. Two doesn't work well because you effectively halve the friction on the floor and end up moving the secured slide unit anyway. Go to 4 blocks and you are a bit closer, but then need to fix the feet to the carriages.

I've seen a nice framework to hold the slides at exactly the correct spacing, which then could allow for a brace to be placed from either end that might do the trick, but we're starting to get way beyond the point of "quick and simple".

[rowumass]

I love slides, but the biggest problem with using them often is that testing everywhere I've seen is done on stationary ergs, and even the psychological disadvantage of moving from slides to stationary rowing messes with me when I test.

Just as a curiosity, does anyone out there row for a club where they test on slides?

[M_Keating]

I just did a 30' piece with my slides for the first time.

1) I felt that my abs were much more engaged, and my low back less so, with the slides than without - this is most welcome, since I hate regular ab work and I have a sore low back as proof.

2) My average HR and max HR were practically identical to those pieces that I have rowed over the past two weeks without slides. This makes me think that slides offer no mechanical advantage over a stationary erg, but this is a very small test.

3) My stroke rate jumped to 27 from roughly 20 with no conscious effort to regulate it one way or the other. No explanation for this yet, and I don't think an increased stroke rate is necessarily a bad thing, but I'm willing to listen to any logical explanation. Sorry JR.


M

[ancho]

Yep, from my experience, on slides you tend to row with higher rates.

And if you force the machine, you can get up to incredible rates!

[PaulS]

I just did a 30' piece with my slides for the first time.

1) I felt that my abs were much more engaged, and my low back less so, with the slides than without - this is most welcome, since I hate regular ab work and I have a sore low back as proof.

2) My average HR and max HR were practically identical to those pieces that I have rowed over the past two weeks without slides. This makes me think that slides offer no mechanical advantage over a stationary erg, but this is a very small test.

3) My stroke rate jumped to 27 from roughly 20 with no conscious effort to regulate it one way or the other. No explanation for this yet, and I don't think an increased stroke rate is necessarily a bad thing, but I'm willing to listen to any logical explanation. Sorry JR.


M

It's merely a matter of you controlling the SR, a jump of 7 in rate, for the same pace wold of course have you putting less strain on your back, as you would not need to produce the same peak forces. It's also likely that you shortened your stroke due to having to "do it yourself" (hence the ab involvement) rather than using gravity and momentum to assist.

I'll make my usual suggestion of Strapless 10m Per Stroke (S10PS) practice while training on the Erg, whether on Slides or Not, then your rate/Pace pairings will be the same and you can evaluate the differences more accurately. (The difference is insignifigant unless the Slides are relieving you from negative effects of very poor technique. Genuine controlled studies have shown slightly elevated HR's for the Slides for the same pace and rate.)

[M_Keating]

I'll make my usual suggestion of Strapless 10m Per Stroke (S10PS) practice while training on the Erg

Thanks for the reminder Paul. I've tried S10PS the last couple of times, feels good, much more controlled.
I'm not going to budge on the ab thing yet though. I'm not sure of the reason, but they are definitely getting a better workout than without slides. Plus I'm not experiencing as much tension in my hip flexors either, and happy for that as well.

M

[M_Keating]

My vote is big in favour of slides BTW. Much smoother and seems much less stressful on the back. Definitely one of the better investments I've made in a while.

M

[Ducatista]

...now I LOVE my slides!

Well, the honeymoon's over. Today I'm taking my erg off the slides.

I'm not quite ready to get rid of them, but I suspect I will eventually. I think the slides helped my technique, so I'm glad I tried them, but after a serious good-faith effort, I find rowing on a grounded erg to be a lot more enjoyable.

It's the swingset sensation I miss most. I did regain some of that as I grew accustomed to the slides, but honestly, there's still a big difference in that respect between slides and grounded. It's just more fun when the swing moves than when the earth swings and you hang still!

I definitely perceive less lower-back stress with slides than with the grounded erg, but frankly, I don't care.

I really did try to love my slides, but it was sort of like trying to persuade myself to like the nice, respectable boy everyone thought I should be with. I finally have to admit my heart belongs to the more stressful, less graceful grounded erg I fell in love with.

I won't mind getting a little floorspace back, either!

[Rockin Roland]

As far as I'm concerned a grounded erg is a dead erg. Grounded ergs mask your faults with your rowing technique and in fact encourage poor technique.

An erg on slides will punish poor technique, however not as much as a Rowperfect would. I find that those people that hate slides are the ones that row like crap anyway and therefore struggle to get any sort of rhythm on them. They get off scrathing their heads looking confused and can't wait to get back on a grounded erg.

The times that I have used slides down at the rowing club I've always used the mirror placed next to it to check on my technical form and made the necessary adjustments to get a nice efficent flowing rhythm going. You just can't muscle it and throw your weight around in any old fashion like you can on a grounded erg.

There wouldn't be too many C2 world record holders, from a non on water rowing background, being able to repeat their same record times on a erg with slides.

However, I've set my money aside for the new Rowperfect which is still a little way off from going into production. It will eat a C2 of any kind.

[Ducatista]

As far as I'm concerned a grounded erg is a dead erg.

Guess I won't be inviting you over to row at my house, then.

Some people think geared bikes are pussy bikes, and fixies are the only way to go. Some people think twins are dinosaur motorcycles, and inline fours are the obvious choice for anyone with half a brain. Some people think grounded ergs are dead ergs.

IMO, there's a companion aphorism to "right tool for the job," and that's "right tool for the person." Anyone who says otherwise is a tool. (j/k, couldn't resist once that sentence got rolling.)

[PaulS]

As far as I'm concerned a grounded erg is a dead erg. Grounded ergs mask your faults with your rowing technique and in fact encourage poor technique.

An erg on slides will punish poor technique, however not as much as a Rowperfect would. I find that those people that hate slides are the ones that row like crap anyway and therefore struggle to get any sort of rhythm on them. They get off scrathing their heads looking confused and can't wait to get back on a grounded erg.

The times that I have used slides down at the rowing club I've always used the mirror placed next to it to check on my technical form and made the necessary adjustments to get a nice efficent flowing rhythm going. You just can't muscle it and throw your weight around in any old fashion like you can on a grounded erg.

There wouldn't be too many C2 world record holders, from a non on water rowing background, being able to repeat their same record times on a erg with slides.

However, I've set my money aside for the new Rowperfect which is still a little way off from going into production. It will eat a C2 of any kind.

If you have the opportunity sometime, try interval sessions switching from a grounded Erg and being on slides. While I agree that the Slides punish certain bad faults, there are other bad faults which they also forgive (and the grounded Erg punishes), making both useful tools for learning opportunities.

The last bit I just don't understand at all; having done some rowing on both the old and new model RP, I'm pretty sure that I prefer the older design (unless things are still changing on the new design) but fail to see how it is in any way superior to a C2 on slides (other than having a smaller footprint when setup or stored).

Anyway, I thought you were saving up for an OarTec or something, did that lose its lustre for some reason?