Fat Smoothie and Spread

Jim Divan · Post by **Jim Divan** » March 29th, 2008, 1:44 pm

I have the fat smoothie with vortex edge Low-I 280-285CM adjustable sculls I'm a masters 1X rower any recommendations on Span for these shorter oars? I was at 159cm with my C2 big blades with these new ones I'm at 283.5 length and about 89 inboard. Seems that I should reduce my span to get a better angle toward the bow while reducing the length to keep the gearing about the same and inboard less to keep overlap the same. Any recomendations on this? I row a Wintech middle wieght international.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » March 29th, 2008, 3:10 pm

Jim Divan wrote:I have the fat smoothie with vortex edge Low-I 280-285CM adjustable sculls I'm a masters 1X rower any recommendations on Span for these shorter oars? I was at 159cm with my C2 big blades with these new ones I'm at 283.5 length and about 89 inboard. Seems that I should reduce my span to get a better angle toward the bow while reducing the length to keep the gearing about the same and inboard less to keep overlap the same. Any recomendations on this? I row a Wintech middle wieght international.

You need to maintain your finish position, while increasing your catch angle, so the easiest thing to try right off the bat is to set the length to 285, the button at 88 (with the CLAM), and row that. Take a screwdriver with you, so that you can test some changes to the inboard by adjusting the overall length at the handle.

No need to mess with the span at the moment, though it's pretty narrow, since you are used to it.

As you reduce the inboard, move your stretcher to the stern to maintain the finish position that you are comfortable with, (~1.5cm to the stern for each 1cm removed from the inboard, will keep the handle spread the same.) This allows more of your total arc (which will remain virtually the same) to be ahead of the pin (~2.5 deg for each 1.5cm the stretcher is moved to the stern).

Nice Oars!

ancho · Post by **ancho** » April 2nd, 2008, 11:39 am

You like fat smoothies, Paul?
I find them very difficult to get used to.
But, I haven't used them a lot.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 2nd, 2008, 1:31 pm

ancho wrote:You like fat smoothies, Paul?
I find them very difficult to get used to.
But, I haven't used them a lot.

They are not my first choice, but when set up right and with the Low-i shaft and new collar they handle pretty darn well.

Lately I've been rowing with come Pocock Wood macons, and it's going to be tough to get me to switch away from them. The last time we were out in the 2x, my wife went back to her Dreher ApexR's and the boat set up like an aircraft carrier (she was finding the wooden sculls a bit unwieldy, but good practice. Even her heavier Apex's feel "like a feather", now). The mass of the wood oars counters about anything that can be done with the light oars, so small mistakes don't mess up stability. I couldn't help but exclaiming several times, "This is what it's supposed to be like.", and didn't stop until we ran out of lake.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » May 1st, 2008, 8:48 pm

Paul wrote:

Lately I've been rowing with come Pocock Wood macons, and it's going to be tough to get me to switch away from them.

I mentioned this in a different thread, and I'm going a little off topic here, but it was a comment by you that got me using my Staempfli wooden spoons. You mentioned that you have some of your rowers use macons early season to work on technique and finesse. It took me a while to get used to the wooden spoons. I'm totally addicted to the wooden oars now, and when I use modern carbon fiber oars I miss the lively feeling of the wooden oars. There is another set of wooden oars in our boat house, some beautiful Empacher oars, and nobody uses them. The Empacher wooden oars are heavy. My Staempfli wooden oars are surprisingly light. I had to fill in some nail holes. The last owner probably used them as decorations hanging on a wall!

Some retro equipment is making a comeback in cycling. More people are going back to sewups, which give a better ride and also have less rolling resistance than clinchers. I wonder if some day, years from now, some manufacturers will re-introduce wooden oars as an expensive but superior alternative to modern oars.

Byron

Andy Nield · Post by **Andy Nield** » May 2nd, 2008, 5:54 am

The mass of the wood oars counters about anything that can be done with the light oars, so small mistakes don't mess up stability. I couldn't help but exclaiming several times, "This is what it's supposed to be like.", and didn't stop until we ran out of lake

But were you faster?

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » May 2nd, 2008, 11:57 am

Andy Nield wrote:
The mass of the wood oars counters about anything that can be done with the light oars, so small mistakes don't mess up stability. I couldn't help but exclaiming several times, "This is what it's supposed to be like.", and didn't stop until we ran out of lake
But were you faster?

We were certainly no slower....

Byron,
I doubt that there will be a resurgence of Wooden Oars, mostly due to materials and craftsmen (at least that's what the folks at Pocock told me when I got the last sets they had. And yes, they did cost more than the most expensive plastic blades available.)

That said, blades do keep changing shape a bit at a time, IMO the ApexR is the pinnacle of that development at this time, and it has more in common with the Macon than at first may appear. The real problem with the Macon in Plastic is that it doesn't have the same lines as one in Wood.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » June 2nd, 2008, 7:52 pm

PaulS wrote:
Andy Nield wrote:
The mass of the wood oars counters about anything that can be done with the light oars, so small mistakes don't mess up stability. I couldn't help but exclaiming several times, "This is what it's supposed to be like.", and didn't stop until we ran out of lake
But were you faster?
We were certainly no slower....

Byron,
I doubt that there will be a resurgence of Wooden Oars, mostly due to materials and craftsmen (at least that's what the folks at Pocock told me when I got the last sets they had. And yes, they did cost more than the most expensive plastic blades available.)

That said, blades do keep changing shape a bit at a time, IMO the ApexR is the pinnacle of that development at this time, and it has more in common with the Macon than at first may appear. The real problem with the Macon in Plastic is that it doesn't have the same lines as one in Wood.

Hi Paul,
I noticed that the Swiss sculler in the M1x final at the World Cup at Lucerne used wooden oars! I couldn't tell but they looked like hatchets. Do you know what kind they were?
Byron

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » June 2nd, 2008, 10:45 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:
Hi Paul,
I noticed that the Swiss sculler in the M1x final at the World Cup at Lucerne used wooden oars! I couldn't tell but they looked like hatchets. Do you know what kind they were?
Byron

I hadn't noticed that when watching, but am going back right now to take a look, they appear to be C2 Big Blades with painted shafts. But even the commentator says "interesting to see him using wooden oars". There were some pretty good close-ups that showed them to be virtually round shafts (probably slightly oval), and that would be unusual for wood, at least I've never seen it.

They give a very good close up at 2:31:19 into the video, just after the finish while he is resting and I'm sure now that they are as above. He was just about the same speed as the WC race won with Sliding Riggers and wood blades the season prior to the banning of the rigger.

ancho · Post by **ancho** » June 3rd, 2008, 12:16 pm

You can have a (very quick) glance here (in Munich), watch out for sec 13!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSSDADjF4t8
Any better vids/pics?

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » June 3rd, 2008, 1:33 pm

ancho wrote:You can have a (very quick) glance here (in Munich), watch out for sec 13!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSSDADjF4t8
Any better vids/pics?

Hi Ancho,

I watched the June 1 events at Lucerne for free at wscn.com

http://www.wcsn.com/video/sport.jsp?id=34017

You need to sign up with your email address and create a password, but it's free for the June 1 events.

Byron

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » June 3rd, 2008, 5:45 pm

I see the question has been answered at rowingillustrated. Ancho raised the question there. Scullerjohnny wrote

the commentators on the Lucerne World Cup screwed that one up...They said that the swiss 1x was rowing with wooden oars. They are in fact C2 sculls painted orange. Its some sponsor that has them do that. I don't know who the sponsor is though.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » June 3rd, 2008, 5:48 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:I see the question has been answered at rowingillustrated. Ancho raised the question there. Scullerjohnny wrote
the commentators on the Lucerne World Cup screwed that one up...They said that the swiss 1x was rowing with wooden oars. They are in fact C2 sculls painted orange. Its some sponsor that has them do that. I don't know who the sponsor is though.

My answer wasn't good enough?

ancho · Post by **ancho** » June 4th, 2008, 7:28 am

Just found this pic, which shows it quite clearly...

Still no idea who that sponsor might be.
Something wrong baout their marketing.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » June 4th, 2008, 8:15 am

PaulS wrote:
Byron Drachman wrote:I see the question has been answered at rowingillustrated. Ancho raised the question there. Scullerjohnny wrote
the commentators on the Lucerne World Cup screwed that one up...They said that the swiss 1x was rowing with wooden oars. They are in fact C2 sculls painted orange. Its some sponsor that has them do that. I don't know who the sponsor is though.
My answer wasn't good enough?

Hi Paul,
I believed you in the first place. I didn't know about the sponsor.
Byron

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