Proper technique

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » April 29th, 2008, 4:52 am

Okay new guy here and I have a question. I realize that in a boat the small package is necessary. I'm talking about the knees together. I don't know if it's because I'm a big guy and still have a little bit of a belly but, I lose oxygen rowing like this and also have a shorter stroke. I have been rowing with my knees on the outside of my elbows which is much more comfortable. I noticed with this style at 32S/M that I average about 26watts more per stroke than using what might be considered the proper style. Now note that I also have a 39" inseam. When my speed gets up there my arms are actually over my knees. Is this just the worst form? Is this taboo at comps? As I noticed watching videos of Crash B that everyone seems to row knees in. I also believe that you will always generate more power in any sport with the knees at least at the same width or wider than the feet. Any thoughts on the subject?

Jeff

Carl Henrik · Post by **Carl Henrik** » April 29th, 2008, 9:49 am

Sounds like you are using the frog style. Knees in is argued better unless you are severly obese or suffering from some medical ventilatory condition.

I also believe that you will always generate more power in any sport with the knees at least at the same width or wider than the feet.

Specificity and detail is key. Prior exposure to general principles may be a negative factor in learning to do something good. Prior exposure to many varied specificities and details on the other hand is good.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 29th, 2008, 10:47 am

Hey, anyone who is doing 3 x 2k, ALL under 5:40 can do them any way they damn well please.

Carl, "severely obese"? Really....

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » April 29th, 2008, 3:38 pm

Okay, after further study I noticed that although there is more power generated from the knees out due to longer stroke it is harder to get in the catch position quickly over a sustained period of time. I think I'm going to stay with the knees just under the elbows as that allows me more oxygen intake.

I guess the point of my question, although a little lame is to figure out what holds you back from faster times. Everyone has different reasons whether it's technique, stamina, oxygen intake or strength. My weakness right now is oxygen and technique, but being a little overweight doesn't help.

Jeff

Yankeerunner · Post by **Yankeerunner** » April 29th, 2008, 4:12 pm

HeavyA wrote: I guess the point of my question, although a little lame is to figure out what holds you back from faster times. Everyone has different reasons whether it's technique, stamina, oxygen intake or strength. My weakness right now is oxygen and technique, but being a little overweight doesn't help.

Jeff

PaulS makes a pretty good point. To put it another way, since you are already rowing more than 10 seconds faster than the official world record how much faster can you reasonably expect to get?

Carl Henrik · Post by **Carl Henrik** » April 29th, 2008, 4:52 pm

PaulS wrote:Carl, "severely obese"? Really....

Yes, I'm sorry

Carl Henrik · Post by **Carl Henrik** » April 29th, 2008, 4:56 pm

I noticed with this style at 32S/M that I average about 26watts more per stroke

PaulS wrote:Hey, anyone who is doing 3 x 2k, ALL under 5:40 can do them any way they damn well please.

I suppose I should reconsider if his SPI does increase with 26 by going froggy. I'm silenced

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 29th, 2008, 5:00 pm

Yankeerunner wrote:
HeavyA wrote: I guess the point of my question, although a little lame is to figure out what holds you back from faster times. Everyone has different reasons whether it's technique, stamina, oxygen intake or strength. My weakness right now is oxygen and technique, but being a little overweight doesn't help.

Jeff
PaulS makes a pretty good point. To put it another way, since you are already rowing more than 10 seconds faster than the official world record how much faster can you reasonably expect to get?

Let's just hope he doesn't get too much faster!

Has the 5:26 been entered into the 2008 Rankings yet? You don't have to get the Erg into the same room as the Computer, just take the PM3 off on it's own.

Carl,
I never could keep my knees together while rowing, of course in sweep we never really wanted to, but I also can not cross my legs while seated in a chair, something to do with the muscles simply getting in the way.
I'll continue to work on the severe obesity. Or would that be "work off"?

Carl Henrik · Post by **Carl Henrik** » April 29th, 2008, 5:01 pm

...well almost silenced

My weakness right now is oxygen and technique

Oxygen does not equate to air. A fellow at my club rowed 6:09 with what I've heard "only" 175L/min ventilation. Most people cannot use the air they are breathing, like me, my max ventilation is 220-230L/min which is quite high. Good for enduring apnea (if indicative of large lung volume), not very necessary for enduring hard work.

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » April 30th, 2008, 3:23 am

Paul

Do I need to download my RowPro in order to hook up my PM3 or is the software already in the PM3?

Jeff

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » April 30th, 2008, 12:12 pm

HeavyA wrote:Paul

Do I need to download my RowPro in order to hook up my PM3 or is the software already in the PM3?

Jeff

You should make sure to update your PM3 to the latest firmware for it. Then download the log card utility from C2, that will allow you to upload all the log card workouts directly to your online log book. I've never run RowPro so am not sure how it works, however I think that I have read that it has it's own upload utility for the online rankings.

Of course I have 2 2k's, both in the 2:4x.x range that have been uploaded to my log book with the utility, but can't rank them in good conscience.

Have you done an all out 500m Time trial? That should be quite good too.

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » April 30th, 2008, 3:12 pm

Thanks Paul

I'm going to try to get that done Sat. when I have more time. I'm very curious about why you won't rank your 2 1K's? The reason I'm asking is that I find it unbelievable that I'm putting up these times, which is why I keep asking the technique questions. I feel like either I'm doing something thats not Kosher or my PM3 is incorrect. I find it very difficult to put any ranking at all for now, but I will post my training.

I have not done a 500 yet but, I did do a 1000 a few weeks ago.
My 1K-2:14, 5k-15:33, 10K-32:13.

Jeff

HeavyA · Post by **HeavyA** » April 30th, 2008, 3:15 pm

Thanks Paul

I'm going to try to get that done Sat. when I have more time. I'm very curious about why you won't rank your 2 1K's? The reason I'm asking is that I find it unbelievable that I'm putting up these times, which is why I keep asking the technique questions. I feel like either I'm doing something thats not Kosher or my PM3 is incorrect. I find it very difficult to put any ranking at all for now, but I will post my training.

I have not done a 500 yet but, I did do a 1000 a few weeks ago.
My 1K-2:14, 5k-15:33, 10K-32:13.

Jeff

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » April 30th, 2008, 3:49 pm

Jeff, people said this before in the other thread. It is virtually certain that your PM3 is not set to the correct type of rowing machine. So if you a model D, it is set for a model C instead. I can't remember the instructions as to how to fix that, but it should be listed on the concept2 site under information or support for the PM.

Your times listed there are physically impossible.

Citroen · Post by **Citroen** » April 30th, 2008, 3:49 pm

PaulS wrote: You should make sure to update your PM3 to the latest firmware for it. Then download the log card utility from C2, that will allow you to upload all the log card workouts directly to your online log book.

Er, wrong way round.

The V6 logcard utility includes the firmware updater, as long as the PM3 is newer than V88 of the firmware (V90 came out in Nov 2005) it will do the update automagically. It's only on older, pre-cambrian version of PM3 that would need the stand-alone firmware loader to get to V101.