rower wanna be

[iain]

...They can be a very useful introduction to the variety of stuff you need to do to get better results on the erg. The beginner plan is here https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/ Also have a read through some of the Beginner PP thread on here in the training section.

Good evening again,
thanks for the link, I will have a look if there’s anything for me, I m a real rookie with this,
but it´s fun so far and distance and speed is increasing step by step.
Priorities are become healthier, thinner, built endurance.

I think it helps to atleast do a few sessions before starting these until you are happy that you have a good consistent stroke and can complete 5k without it leaving you exhausted. Some people (especially young people transitioning from other sports) get to this quickly while others take a bit longer. I would say it is the "beginning of serious erg training" rather than for complete rookies. Any errors in your stroke take a lot of ironing out later so are good to identify and work on at the start.

Normally indoor rowing competitions are just referred to like that with "regattas" being those on the water. In person competitions are getting rare now, but there are regular online competitions. Most rowing clubs would be happy to give a few tips on erging technique if you want the personal approach. Unfortunately some physical trainers do not understand proper technique so help is not available in many gyms.

As well as muscle maintenance and stamina, rowing will reduce the bodies tendency to reduce metabolism when your food intake drops below what you are using and so aids continued weight loss. The trouble is that the number of calories burned can be consumed quickly and exercise may make you hungry and feel "justified in having a treat" so that you do not end up eating less than you are losing.

Good luck on your journey.

[Officer1970]

So there are more People from Germany here?

Yes, there are.

Herzlich Willkommen und viel Spaß beim Ergo-Training.

Hallo Roland!
Danke.
Der Spaß steigert sich mit jedem Training schön das man gerade am Anfang so schnell eine Steigerung sieht.
Jeden Morgen seit 3 Wochen. I ´ll keep going.
Beste Grüße

[Officer1970]

...They can be a very useful introduction to the variety of stuff you need to do to get better results on the erg. The beginner plan is here https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/ Also have a read through some of the Beginner PP thread on here in the training section.

Good evening again,
thanks for the link, I will have a look if there’s anything for me, I m a real rookie with this,
but it´s fun so far and distance and speed is increasing step by step.
Priorities are become healthier, thinner, built endurance.

I think it helps to atleast do a few sessions before starting these until you are happy that you have a good consistent stroke and can complete 5k without it leaving you exhausted. Some people (especially young people transitioning from other sports) get to this quickly while others take a bit longer. I would say it is the "beginning of serious erg training" rather than for complete rookies. Any errors in your stroke take a lot of ironing out later so are good to identify and work on at the start.

Normally indoor rowing competitions are just referred to like that with "regattas" being those on the water. In person competitions are getting rare now, but there are regular online competitions. Most rowing clubs would be happy to give a few tips on erging technique if you want the personal approach. Unfortunately some physical trainers do not understand proper technique so help is not available in many gyms.

As well as muscle maintenance and stamina, rowing will reduce the bodies tendency to reduce metabolism when your food intake drops below what you are using and so aids continued weight loss. The trouble is that the number of calories burned can be consumed quickly and exercise may make you hungry and feel "justified in having a treat" so that you do not end up eating less than you are losing.

Good luck on your journey.

Thank you so much for your advice,
and you ´ re so right. Meanwhile I discovered it ´ s a journey to get there, and I was a bit overmotivated.
I think I have a common problem with the technic, as I have not so much impact on my legs as I expected.
Have to improve that first.
5 K for the moment is out of reach but not of sight.
But I ´ m learning my body better every day.
Great to have this here.
Have a nice evening.

BR Volker

[jamesg]

I think I have a common problem with the technic, as I have not so much impact on my legs as I expected.

For leg impact, try climbing stairs, even only 4-5 floors.

Rowing is a sport, so needs technique; without technique, we can't use our legs. But we do risk injury.

Note the sequences:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20rSoTo8fQA

[marelica]

Good day everyone!
Thanks to everyone who helps me with their advice, I read them very well several times.
This week I can say that I am making some progress.
I practiced the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRlXnpSNf3A

After doing this exercise about twenty times for each sequence, I went rowing.
I can say that after the last row I felt my legs and not my back and arms, which I think is ok in the long run.
I have a problem with the catch position, because my stroke is still weak. It even dropped below 40W after
that I don't tear with my hands very much.
It seems to me that I am not able to prepare for the stroke, so that my butt goes back without using a lot of power in my legs.
I also practiced the suggested exercise of pushing off a little with one leg and a little with the other, and with both, I got a certain feeling of how
stroke should look like.

Is there a push-up exercise?

As for my weight, it's the same this week, but I've reduced my waist and hips by 1 cm.
I am satisfied.

Otherwise, this whole challenge is a lot of fun for me and it lifts my spirits and I will continue on in the same rhythm. I go to the gym every other day and that turned out to be a good pace.

Any advice is welcome!

Kind regards,
Marelica

[Dangerscouse]

Any advice is welcome!

I'd also recommend something as simple as wall sits to strengthen your legs. This could be 20-30 seconds at a time, and then build up to single leg wall sits. No equipment, other than a wall and stopwatch, is needed and it can be very effective if you need to build leg strength.

As for the power in the stroke, it sounds like you might be concentrating on the push a bit too much and you're missing all of the other elements of the stroke. A string push is needed, but you also need to 'take the strain' with your core and upper body so that your whole body is working in unison but to differing amounts at different times. Imagine it's like a relay of power from your feet to your hands.

[MPx]

Any advice is welcome!

I'd also recommend something as simple as wall sits to strengthen your legs. This could be 20-30 seconds at a time, and then build up to single leg wall sits. No equipment, other than a wall and stopwatch, is needed and it can be very effective if you need to build leg strength.

As for the power in the stroke, it sounds like you might be concentrating on the push a bit too much and you're missing all of the other elements of the stroke. A strong push is needed, but you also need to 'take the strain' with your core and upper body so that your whole body is working in unison but to differing amounts at different times. Imagine it's like a relay of power from your feet to your hands.

As Stu says...sounds like you've not locked your core before the push with your legs. The result is you "shoot the slide" which basically means your leg force moves your bum back on the slide but not the handle - you just end up leaning further forward. With straight arms and a locked core, all of the leg push gets translated to the handle. Then you can add the swing and arm pull to lengthen the stroke, but most of the power comes from the initial leg push.

[marelica]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice, I got it

I read the last two posts several times and went to the gym.

I did the following rides:
1500 m, W=47
500 m, W = 70
250 m, W=103

My heart wanted to jump out of my chest. So I stopped and did strength training.

Ok, it looks like I can do it too, but I'm not in shape and I don't have enough strength.

So what can I do next? Which way should I proceed?
Should I go back to 500m, W=70 and then slowly build fitness and meters?
Or to stay at w=50 and continue to practice form for one two months?

What still confuses me is that I don't manage to slow down when I'm in the recovery phase. I have to learn that somehow.

I wanted to get in touch with you today, because your advice really helped

Best regards,
Marelica

[MPx]

Its great that you're getting some benefit - stick with it and improvements will come. Sadly there's no short cuts, it takes time and effort in the seat - but the progress is real and measured so at least there's postive feedback. I'd suggest at this stage you should be concentrating getting the stroke right - at only 50w it suggests there's still some improvement needed. Form is fundamental to your progress - there's loads of videos covering it - many linked in threads here. That's easiest to do at a low rate (say 20 to 24 strokes per minute). Each stroke needs to be smooth and continuous and as powerful as possible without causing you to stop. Start maybe with 5 minutes. Take a 3 min rest and then see if you can do another 4min at the same pace/watts. Another rest then 3min, another rest then 2 min and another rest before 1 min. That will be 15 min of active rowing - if you can manage a constant 70+watts that will be well over 2500m. Once you're comfortable with that then add some time - eg a 6min interval at the start. The idea, over several weeks if necessary, is to increase your time on the erg so that you get to be able to row for say 20 and then 30 mins. It will also ingrain your stroke so its important that you're doing it right or you'll just ingrain bad habits. Once it's possible for you to knock out 20 and 30 minute sessions you can then think again about how best to meet your next goals - be that performance based, or fitness, or weight, or whatever you find motivating.

[Dangerscouse]

I can't add anything to what Mike has said, so just stay patient and look for small gains as it will not suddenly become easy.

If it's hard work then you're having to adapt to the effort and every time you try again you will be a little bit better. Admittedly this may be such a small amount that you don't notice it, but it's going to be there.

As for slowing down in the recovery, that will just take time to train yourself to slow down. As you're building your knowledge of a stronger, faster stroke you can combine this with a slower softer stroke, so the recovery pace can become a bit more natural, otherwise you'll just rush up and down every time.

I'd suggest doing three 'normal' strokes and three slower strokes, so the stroke and the recovery are at the same pace, and keep repeating this for as long as you can. Eventually you'll be looking to combine the faster stroke pace and the slower recovery pace, but you'll need to think about what you're doing as it won't feel natural to start with, so it will need repetition to make it automatic.

[p_b82]

You could also play a small game with yourself - but you have to be fairly confident that your technique is solid at this point by seeing:

How much power/pace can I generate at as slow a rate as possible.

The important thing, is to never pause at the start or the end of the stroke - as that's cheating/bad form.

I'm not sure what rate your 70W 500m row was at, but challenge yourself to do the same thing with a lower stroke rate, just by one to start with, and as you achieve that, try to drop it again.

I found it really helped me when I was re-assessing my stroke, as it highlighted the places where I was leaking power & making up for it by just increasing the rate. It also taught me to slow down the recovery phase & overall I've a much more efficient stroke now as a result.

Every-one has their own balance of how fast they go up/down the slide (rate) for a given Power - and you'll find yours with enough practice - it's where the stroke feels "right" and you can consistently make the same power every time you go up and down without thinking about it and your Heart rate (or perceived effort) is the lowest.

Keep it up - as long as you keep enjoying it, and you don't hurt yourself then it is all good

[Dave Neve]

Hello Marelica and all

One tip that I got from a website I adore called "RowAlong" is not to think that you're pushing yourself back but that you are pushing the rowing machine forwards and away from you.

It's hard to understand what difference this might make but basically, John Stevenson, the expert on RowAlong explained that if you think you are trying to get back away from the rower, you then tend to use the backswing too early to get yourself further back and away from the machine

By thinking your pushing the machine forwards and away from you, you tend to use your legs more to distance the machine before using your backswing for the second part of the stroke (legs then back then arms).

It's subtle but that how the human brain sometimes works.

I'd be interested to hear what others think about this

[Dangerscouse]

I'd be interested to hear what others think about this

Ideal advice. The small and subtle things are usually really important, and this is one of them as it can all too easily be considered too much of a pull rather than a push.

[Tsnor]

Hello Marelica and all

One tip that I got from a website I adore called "RowAlong" is not to think that you're pushing yourself back but that you are pushing the rowing machine forwards and away from you.

...

I'd be interested to hear what others think about this

OTW coaches focus on this. I think it's intended to help leg drive sequencing, i.e. keeping arms and back in catch position until legs are down (vs. pulling arms and/or swinging back before legs down - a perennial problem). But sometimes the target impact of coaching is not obvious. Agree "legs pushing away" feels different than "pulling the handle" even when you are doing the same movements the same way.

[iain]

I did the following rides:
1500 m, W=47
500 m, W = 70
250 m, W=103

My heart wanted to jump out of my chest. So I stopped and did strength training.

So what can I do next? Which way should I proceed?

What still confuses me is that I don't manage to slow down when I'm in the recovery phase. I have to learn that somehow.

The above stats are not very helpful without the "rating" (the number of strokes per minute). The first is nearly 10 min of rowing so a great start. Perhaps you should just set 10 min and see how far you can get? If you want to go a bit further, perhaps set up (choose interval variable, then by time for each interval, results when you look at "logbook") 10' then 7' then 4'. The decrease will help you as you will be breathing hard much sooner.

I suspect that you may have achieved the faster paces by increasing the rating. Fine for shorter distances, but clearly not sustainable. You should try to at least increase the watts by the same proportion as you increase the strokes per minute. So if 47W was at 24 strokes per minute, you want to do atleast 55W at 28 strokes per minute (28/24 x 47). This reduces your chance to recover while becoming less efficient at high levels so more of your effort won't be recorded in the pace (it is used moving you up and down the slide rather than driving the flywheel). The key is to go faster when "pushing" the footplate away than when pulling yourself forward for the next stroke. This feels a bit odd to many as the latter is easier as you aren't driving the flywheel, but the "boat" keeps moving between strokes so you get "credit" of extra metres between strokes. Try and slow the slide forward as much as is comfortable. This should allow you to get 2 good breaths in and for you to keep up a rhythm of repeated strong strokes. Also monitoring the "pace" of each stroke will reveal weaker strokes. Aim to keep up an effort you can continue to the end of the interval and then not allow it to drop when you doubt you can by pushing harder with your legs.

Hope it goes well.