Any day now the scale MIGHT move.....

[logdoc]

it is pretty funny reading how fit/slim people can argue over how many calories are burnt for a given amount of effort.
But there is Debbie -K wondering if she can use the rower to loose weight.
Debbie, as a pretty big guy rowing at 34-36 SPM for about 40-60 min a day I have to add some weights to build a bit more muscle mass to help the weight loss along. Guys loose it faster tham women most of the time so it may take a bit longer than you want. But some added weights, even hand weight you can use at home or work now and again or ankle weights while you walk around might be enough to help with weight loss. Muscles just burn more calories that fat even as you sleep.

[johnlvs2run]

It is very easy to lose weight and this can help you to be healthy.

The keys are (1) less than 1000 calories per day, (2) portion control, 3 equally sized meals, (3) no snacks (4) less than 5% calories from fat, (5) no salt and no condiments. Salt stimulates cravings, caffeine is toxic, both are no no's.

A good diet, as used by Walter Kempner for more than 60 years helping the morbidly obese lose to normal weight is the Rice Diet he used in the program at Duke University, which was discontinued with his passing.

I followed this diet some 15 years ago to go from the highest I've been, 170 pounds, to 133 pounds in 4 months. Then I went off the diet but kept the principles and stayed at 140 pounds or less for an additional four years.

You can find details of the diet in the excellent book, "The Rice Diet Report", by Judy Moscovitz. I found a mint condition hardbound copy at a used bookstore a few years ago for $6. If you'd like to know more here than ask and I'll be glad to provide more details.

[michaelb]

There have been many other posts like this over the years, mostly women (but some men) wondering why they aren't losing weight when they start to row. The simple answer to these questions always seem to be that if you burn more calories than you consume, you will lose weight. But for rowing, it may be more complicated then that (I wouldn't be surprised if there are posts on running forums and swimming forums and stepping forums about people not losing weight too).

I think it is possible that there is a muscle building aspect to rowing, particularly for women. Rowing works almost every muscle, and all the large ones, so even small changes in muscle could add up to weight gain. If you are getting faster and stronger on the rower (which it measures very exactly) then you are making improvements, even if they aren't showing up yet on the scale.

You are rowing 30 min 5 days a week. That is great and certainly keep that up. However, I found that rowing longer, up to an hour, made a huge difference in weight lose. So you may want to take the time to stretch out some of your rows each week to 40 min/10k/60 min and see if that speeds this along.

good luck.

[Hally930]

I have had basically the same experience at various times throughout my life. I was a swimmer for 15 years and always overweight, even when swimming 2 workouts per day. It wasn't until we began to run and lift weights that I dropped the extra weight.

At the time, I was told that swimmers have a tough time dropping weight because a) you are horizontal, not vertical b) it is non weight bearing and c) your body temperature actually lowers while swimming so your body doesn't burn calories.

Some of these make some sense, some seem odd - I'm not enough of a scientist to know if they are true!

And, I've been having the same issue now. My fitness and muscle tone has drastically improved, and I've lost inches, but not a lot of weight. I'm hoping that I'm building muscle and that it will eventually help me start losing more weight. But reading this thread has made me think back and wonder if adding a day of walking/running wouldn't speed things up.

Either way, hang in there and keep working! What really matters is that we are creating good lifestyle habits that will pay off in the end.

[jprisbrey]

When I first start to work out after a long layoff, I usually gain weight. I have read in the past that one possible reason for this is that your body starts to demand hydration in response to the exercise. So, most of the initial weight gain is water. This implies that when you are not exercising you are likely not properly hydrated.

I'm not sure if it makes sense, but it fits the facts for me. I always drink way more when I'm exercising regularly.

--Jeffp

[Sicilianna]

Initially, I actually gained weight upon beginning to row. I've become thick and even wider than I usually am. At 5'3 that's a bit tough to deal with, especially since the goal is to lose weight. I'm older too, and take medication which can render one "...metabolically resistant to weight loss."

That being said, I must add that I see changes in my body. My ab section looks smaller and my thighs, while still heavy are looking more muscular and less "fat". Lower legs look leaner as well. My forearms and back are looking well defined. I've never been one of those people who loses weight in all body areas simultaneously. Extremeties become smaller first and that stubborn area which I refer to as the Belly,Butt and Hip Zone is always the last to see improvement.

I decided to drop my calorie numbers, though the trainer at my gym wants me to continue at a calorie count I considered way too high for my age. Sure enough, I'm down five pounds and will continue on. At 54, it's not going to come off easily. I can't argue with feeling more fit and flexible, especially when arthritis and peripheral neuropathy are involved.

I have to definitely increase the water intake .

Good luck to all,

[grams]

Right on Sicilianna!

Another subtle change that doesn't show up on the scales is one's posture and body language. When I exercise I feel better about myself and stand straighter. That helps with the loss in bust size (the first to go with me). The overall impression is of youthfulness, not old age.

I am 65 and 5'3 1/2". My weight loss daily calories are only 1600 a day. Not much left after you take out the daily beer in the evening! I usually don't eat before I row and then stick to juice and some hard candy till dinner. What daily caloric intake did you go down to?

After you get to the weight you want you can eat normally the day before you row and not gain weight. But eating the steak and potatoes means you have to exercise the next day.

And yes, arthritis and neurapathy are problems. Losing weight really helps my joint arthritis though. Slow and long sessions are the best for me right now.

grams

[Ducatista]

Great response, dszil. Thanks, especially, for this:

2) Don't get too concerned with "starvation mode". It is a largly misunderstood concept. First of all...you need to be at a 60%+ calorie deficit for an extended period to even approach converting over to it. That's a huge deficit that most people don't have the will-power to maintain even if they wanted to. But the key point is that even if you do...you will still lose weight.

Starvation Mode is an incredibly stubborn misconception, isn't it? I suppose because "I'm not eating enough" is far more appealing than "I'm underestimating what I eat and overestimating what I burn."

Then there's this...

It is very easy to lose weight

...which is about as accurate as "It is very easy to quit smoking." Good for a chuckle, though.

For what it's worth, Debbie-k, I have lost weight solely through exercise, without keeping close watch on my intake. However, that was when I was:
- walking to and from work daily, 4 miles round trip.
- hitting the gym 5-6X/wk for at least an hour, mostly weight training.
- too broke to eat out or spend extravagantly on groceries, so there was only so much I could eat, whether I was watching it or not.

It's really tough to budge the scale with exercise alone, I'm afraid.

[logdoc]

Does anyone know exactly how calories are calculated by our rowers? When I get off the machine and it says XXX calories, clearly it is based on some assumed body weight. Do we know what weight that is?
How do SPM enter into tthe picture. Will rowing at 34SPM vs 32SPM for 45 min really make much difference? What is the algorithym?

[Ducatista]

I think the Calorie readout is based on a 175lb rower. I check Cals on my PM2 at the end of each session, and the value is remarkably close to the number I get from my Polar F4, often within 1 or 2%. That's just luck, of course; as my weight and fitness level change, the values should grow further apart.

Interestingly, the PM2 usually gives me a lower value than the HRM in the morning, and a higher value than the HRM in the evening. Apparently the PM2 isn't sophisticated enough to sense just how inefficient my body is before 6am.

[logdoc]

I think the Calorie readout is based on a 175lb rower. I check Cals on my PM2 at the end of each session, and the value is remarkably close to the number I get from my Polar F4, often within 1 or 2%. That's just luck, of course; as my weight and fitness level change, the values should grow further apart.

Interestingly, the PM2 usually gives me a lower value than the HRM in the morning, and a higher value than the HRM in the evening. Apparently the PM2 isn't sophisticated enough to sense just how inefficient my body is before 6am.

Much appreciated. thanks

[PJM]

I have to put my 2 cents in here on weight loss.I am a certified personal trainer and I worked as a weight los councilor for several years.We all have our "take" on weight loss and how to get there.There are so many factors to consider and I have helped many people..especially women lose weight at various stages in their lives.I also try to keep my weight down and keep a balanced lifestyle.Losing weight requires a lifestyle change/behavior modification.It has to be "for life".The basics..calories in versus calories out.Energy expended versus energy taken in..no magic bullet.No magic pill or supplement.Men do lose faster..they have more muscle mass..the more muscle we have the more calories we burn at any given moment.Women need to incorporate some form of strength training to achieve this.Rowing will do this..as it works every major muscle group as well as the supporting smaller muscles.It can be made to be aerobic or anaerobic.Depending on time spent, intensity and heart rate.One has to decide how they want to approach the rowing style.As we gain muscle mass we sometime gain weight as the scale may show but fat is replaced with muscle and will firm the body and when the scale says higher numbers..the body will be leaner and toner and smaller clothes will be needed.Measurements are a better measure of true weight loss than numbers on a scale.% of body fat, BMI are better indicators.These are just my personal opinions.It is not easy to lose weight unless one makes his/her mind up to change their lifestyles..I eat no white stuff..no refined sugars..no processed foods.I try to eat lo glycemic foods.Good carbs versus bad carbs.I hope that this may help some..it is again my experience and opinion.

PJM

[Steelhead]

It is very easy to lose weight and this can help you to be healthy.

The keys are (1) less than 1000 calories per day, (2) portion control, 3 equally sized meals, (3) no snacks (4) less than 5% calories from fat, (5) no salt and no condiments. Salt stimulates cravings, caffeine is toxic, both are no no's.

A good diet, as used by Walter Kempner for more than 60 years helping the morbidly obese lose to normal weight is the Rice Diet he used in the program at Duke University, which was discontinued with his passing.

I followed this diet some 15 years ago to go from the highest I've been, 170 pounds, to 133 pounds in 4 months. Then I went off the diet but kept the principles and stayed at 140 pounds or less for an additional four years.

You can find details of the diet in the excellent book, "The Rice Diet Report", by Judy Moscovitz. I found a mint condition hardbound copy at a used bookstore a few years ago for $6. If you'd like to know more here than ask and I'll be glad to provide more details.

Here's the link for the Rice Diet: http://www.ricedietprogram.com/

[Steelhead]

Does anyone know exactly how calories are calculated by our rowers? When I get off the machine and it says XXX calories, clearly it is based on some assumed body weight. Do we know what weight that is?
How do SPM enter into tthe picture. Will rowing at 34SPM vs 32SPM for 45 min really make much difference? What is the algorithym?

http://www.concept2.com/us/training/too ... stment.asp

Are some people less able to burn fat than others?

Research has substantiated this. The difficulty is determining whether you are better at fat burning than someone else. Specialist testing equipment is required. Some people can burn significant amounts of fat at high CV exercise whilst others max out at much lower levels. You could use your rowing machine to calculate what camp you fall in. Do note that even the latest C2 erg only estimates your calorie burning; note also that exercise familiarity also curbs calorie burning. So if you always row 5,000m a day at 1:55 pace the chances are that over a period of time your calorie burning potential will decrease.

What can be done if you have been training for a long time and are having difficulty losing more fat?

If you are an experienced trainer and are striving for further realistic fat loss, then take a serious look at your training and look to overhaul it regularly. This will provide your body with a fresh stimulus and will optimise the long term potential for continued fitness improvement and fat burning. It's very similar to training for a 2K race, where layers and layers of specific fitness are built on top of each other to achieve optimum race condition.

TRAINING TIP: For fat burning rowing purposes, try to alter the emphasis of your training every 12 to 16 weeks; perhaps building up from slower CV efforts to more intense ones and/or emphasising weights and other resistance training methods.

Why can quick weight loss be disappointing in the long run?

Your body finds it much easier to burn carbohydrate in the form of glycogen rather than fat. The Rat previously noted that the body cannot hold onto glycogen and that it must continually be replenished. Fat on the other hand can hang around like an unwelcome party guest. Fat also weighs much less than glycogen. "You should just be starting to hear the penny drop now for the consequences for quick weight loss," explains the Rat adding, "If you weigh yourself after a workout, chances are you will be lighter, but as fat heavy." Reduced glycogen (and water loss) will skew the figures. That's why dieters often get disillusioned after initial enthusiasm with quick weight loss. If exercise levels are reduced or if eating habits return to pre-exercise/diet levels then the chances are that the weight will return largely because your body has restocked with glycogen. Also diets where insufficient calories are consumed for everyday needs run the risk of turning your body into a poor fat burner - this is because it will hang on to every calorie it gets in fear that the next one will be a long time coming. This is a genetic predisposition dating back to well before the Model A Indoor Rower, when our prehistoric ancestors could not rely on when their next meal would come.

TRAINING TIP: A lack of glycogen will also seriously affect your training potential, so to reiterate don't starve yourself and follow the guidelines provided in this article if you want to optimise your fat burning and training.

AND: Do not yo-yo diet as you can set your body's fat burning dial at a very low level. A period of calorie restriction can alter your body's 'set point' for burning fat and maintaining leanness. Once this is in the low range, weight can easily be put on.