Losing a few pounds - especially stop-start 'mature' ergers

[estragon]

Hi All. Apparently this subforum is a bit of a magnet for spammers, hence the number of locked topics. I'll give it another go as I think weight loss is a key reason many of us start erging in its various forms (rowing and ski-ing in my case).

So how's your weight-loss going?

I've had my rower since 2015 and ski-erg since about 2019. Like many, I blow hot and cold, usually alternating a few months of enthusiasm with a few months of inertia, averaging about 400-500K a year. Needless to say, the weight seems to fluctuate along with the activity. I know that diet is more important than exercise, but for me at least, they go hand in hand, in the sense that when I'm in an exercise phase I naturally want to eat more healthily.

After a stressful few months (moving house, moving country, moving job etc.) I've ballooned again to about 235 pounds (106kg) and it's time to get going again. So I've just got back into erging again, and am currently on a 9-day streak. I've re-embarked on the excellent Pete's Plan for Beginners which I've attempted several times but never finished. I've got about halfway a few times.

Anyway, I was just wondering if others have this sort of stop-go tendency, and if so, how you try to deal with it. I'm not expecting any magic solution as I suspect it's more to do with personality than anything. I tend to get very enthusiastic about something, then go off it completely for a while, then come back to it. I'm 65 years old which makes it even less likely that I'll be able to change this pattern but I live in hope.

Other than that, I was just curious about how people's weight-loss regimes are going. It's always good to get a bit of encouragement, and of course to offer a bit of assistance if I can.

[JaapvanE]

Anyway, I was just wondering if others have this sort of stop-go tendency, and if so, how you try to deal with it. I'm not expecting any magic solution as I suspect it's more to do with personality than anything. I tend to get very enthusiastic about something, then go off it completely for a while, then come back to it. I'm 65 years old which makes it even less likely that I'll be able to change this pattern but I live in hope.

Most importantly, have fun while rowing. Enjoy the process, and ignore the goal. I like music while rowing, I have EXR Game on (which is fed data by the PM5), and when I have an off day I still try to get on the Erg, but then for a slow row or a short distance. But I try to get on the Erg.

[estragon]

Most importantly, have fun while rowing. Enjoy the process, and ignore the goal. I like music while rowing, I have EXR Game on (which is fed data by the PM5), and when I have an off day I still try to get on the Erg, but then for a slow row or a short distance. But I try to get on the Erg.

TBH, I don't think I ever 'have fun while rowing' though I always feel happy when I've finished a session, which is almost the same thing. For me exercise is always a bit boring but like you, I'm pretty good at finding diversions. I listen to podcasts a lot, and sometimes I watch football or a Netflix documentary. The thing that keeps me going most is setting targets and keeping a spreadsheet to tell me how I'm doing. The best part of any session is updating my spreadsheet and watching the totals creeping up.

At my age I've given up constantly trying to row faster. That's dangerous territory and risks injury. I'm much happier trying to row for longer, and aiming to break season totals for distances.

[jseymour]

TBH, I don't think I ever 'have fun while rowing' ... For me exercise is always a bit boring ...

I fight the potential for boredom by always leaving myself wanting to do a bit more.

I've had gym memberships since 2005. I'd hit the gym 3-5 times/week and do intense workouts. Fell off the wagon when Covid-19 hit. Was just ready to get back to it when my gym announced they were closing their doors. Didn't like any of the other nearby gyms, so I'm building my own at home.

One component is my Concept2 rower.

Now I don't do long, intense workouts. Most workouts, be they on the C2 or strength training, are about twenty minutes long. But I do something, sometimes a couple of those short sessions, every day.

Today was bent-over dumbbell rows, decline weighted ab crunches, and incline chest flies. Thought I'd do twenty minutes on the C2, later, but, while doing the vacuuming, I found I'd wiped myself out with the strength training No worries: I'll hit the C2 tomorrow. Then probably a different set of weight training later in the day.

Admittedly, twenty minutes ain't much, compared to what most here do. But it gets my heart rate up and improves my cardio-vascular system, and that's all I'm really seeking.

In fact: Following a short nap I'm feeling pretty good. I think I'll go knock out a couple sets of dumbbell hammer curls before dinner--just because

Btw: If you really want to lose weight: Control your diet. You can't out-exercise a poor diet.

[jamesg]

Anyway, I was just wondering if others have this sort of stop-go tendency, and if so, how you try to deal with it. I'm not expecting any magic solution as I suspect it's more to do with personality than anything.

It's a chore, like washing the dishes or chopping firewood. So just do it. The penalty for failure is very heavy, though maybe not equating to sudden death, only very uncomfortable life. The main advantages are that we can't do all three at the same time, and that there can be a surprising amount of satisfaction. All three keep us away from the table too; and if what's there is little and simple, so much the better.

[Dangerscouse]

It is difficult when you don't enjoy the process, and only focus on the results. You're always going to struggle to embrace the bad days, so I'd say you need to find some form of accountability.

As you're doing the BPP, I'd suggest that you regularly post on that thread and try to remain accountable through that. There are quite a lot of active members so they can keep you going when you need some encouragement.

[p_b82]

I have to say I'd echo the comments made about needing to enjoy the activity or have something to hold you to maintaining the habit.

I used to swim, I absolutely hated the faff around changing and showering and chlorine, didn't particularly enjoy the act of swimming as I was one mistimed breath from choking - and that triggered memories of downing - but I loved the post swim feeling and beating my goals I'd set for myself.

The reason I added that was - because I didn't particularly enjoy it, I only did it once a week, which is better than nothing but not that great for sustaining progress. It took me about 3 years to break 30mins for 1500m; a time\distance I'd decided upon when I'd met my earlier goals of swim for 60mins without stopping etc.
But I did set a habit of going almost every week for 3 years solidly - which sets a mindset of "just do it" as jamseg says.

I only started erging 5 months ago - I set myself some very holistic, non-numerical, goals - to change my body shape (& improve my CV fitness as a by-product).

I'm absolutely terrible at following plans and guides that say progress XYZ needs to be made - or row on days ABC doing activity FGH (I also hate doing intervals). So the BPP is a no-go for me.

But I am good with setting myself goals that "at some point" I want to beat - C2 has loads of benchmarks, so it's really easy for me to stay motivated, as there are so many potential things I can aim to improve upon along my journey.

In October I'd managed to row 60mins in one session a few times, so decided I'd see about increasing the seat time, a month later I'd got it to 1hr40 ~18k; and a week after that thought "what the hell" and plugged in HM distance; 3 days after setting a 6k pb. There's no specific approach to my training schedule

The numbers and PB's are nice - but all they are doing is helping me hit my goal of "change body shape" - it is not even about weight per say, as I'm not seeing any current weight changes - but my sister commented on my body shape being different, so there are improvements starting to occur & I'm sure my weight will start to drop as the fat continues to come off (I've been developing more muscle so that's why my weight isn't dropping yet)

[jseymour]

I have to say I'd echo the comments made about needing to enjoy the activity or have something to hold you to maintaining the habit.

The difference between the two is intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivators. E.g.: Rowing because you enjoy rowing. You enjoy the feel of the motion, exerting yourself, etc. (intrinsic) vs. rowing because you have been told or feel you need to, to lose weight or improve your heart health or whatever (extrinsic).

Personally, I'm rowing because I enjoy the physical exertion. I find the rower particularly rewarding because, to do it well you have to coordinate your body for an efficient rowing stroke. So I find myself doing it at least as much because I actually enjoy the rowing as for the cardio benefits.

I don't do it primarily for weight loss. Sure: Cardio aids weight loss. It will boost your metabolic rate during the session and for up to forty-eight hours following it. But all you need do is compare the "calories burned" numbers on a machine's display or a fitness watch and add up the calories consumed with even a light meal to see how little effect that will really have. Same with the follow-on metabolic rate increase.

Thus my comment, earlier: If you really want to lose weight: Control your diet. You can't out-exercise a poor diet.

I enjoy strength training for the same reason I enjoy rowing: I literally enjoy exerting myself. It feels good to make my body work. Sure, I also enjoy the results: Getting leaner, getting some muscle definition (extrinsic motivators). But it's the exercise I enjoy. It simply feels good

At the risk of being called out as a heretic I'd argue that if you don't find rowing enjoyable, you might be well-advised to find a different cardio exercise. One you can find enjoyable.

One may be the type for which extrinsic motivators work. Some people are. But the studies suggest for most people intrinsic motivators are more effective.

[p_b82]

If one simplifies a bad diet as one that has too many calories, then I do agree - no amount of exercise can resolve that if you always consume more, even when factoring one's exercise regime in.

Yes, it is compounded if one's diet has a lot of sugar as well.

But I'd disagree on the impact of exercise when the diet is only marginally on the excess side - 90mins on the erg at a low wattage (ut2) can still burn ~900-1000 calories in a sitting, that's a very good % of a person's allowance to add to the daily total; it doesn't take long for that to become a deficit with the assumption that the intake is being controlled.

To answer the OP about progress, I got on the scales for the first time in a while today and I'd lost 2lbs, since I've started erging I've gone from 205lbs down to 198 - I think my aim is roughly be between 180-190, I've still a lot of extra padding in a few places I don't want; luckily I hadn't let things get too bad as I was still walking regularly over the summer. (but spending too much time in the garden in the sun drinking cider too )

[jseymour]

If one simplifies a bad diet as one that has too many calories, ...

On the most basic level: Yes: Unless you're running a calorie deficit you won't lose fat. But "good diet" is more than just calories in vs. calories out. Whole, nutritious foods vs. heavily-processed, nutrient-poor "food" makes a big difference too, as does carbs vs. proteins.

But I'd disagree on the impact of exercise when the diet is only marginally on the excess side -

Problem is: Most Americans' diets are far from "marginally" on the excess side.

90mins on the erg at a low wattage (ut2) can still burn ~900-1000 calories in a sitting, ...

How many people do you suppose are going to be interested in spending an hour-and-a-half on a rower, or any other cardio machine, day-after-day, day in, day out? I'm fairly motivated and even I wouldn't do that. Ok, maybe many people could do that for the sake of losing excess fat, but as an on-going lifestyle change? Not many.

Besides: To illustrate my point: One small McDonald's meal, consisting of a Big Mac, small fry, and small Coke is 930 Cals. There went that ninety minutes, just like that.

One night my wife and I went to Arby's for dinner. (No, we don't do that often. Maybe two or three times a year, at the most.) I was working on fat loss so I ordered responsibly. Then I thought to check what the cost would be if I ordered what I'd really liked to have ordered. Had I done that, that one meal would've constituted my entire daily allowance in that one sitting.

Talk to any fitness coach and they'll tell you the same thing: If one wants to get the fat under control the very first step is getting ones diet straightened-out.

[p_b82]

If one simplifies a bad diet as one that has too many calories, ...

On the most basic level: Yes: Unless you're running a calorie deficit you won't lose fat. But "good diet" is more than just calories in vs. calories out. Whole, nutritious foods vs. heavily-processed, nutrient-poor "food" makes a big difference too, as does carbs vs. proteins.

But I'd disagree on the impact of exercise when the diet is only marginally on the excess side -

Problem is: Most Americans' diets are far from "marginally" on the excess side.

90mins on the erg at a low wattage (ut2) can still burn ~900-1000 calories in a sitting, ...

How many people do you suppose are going to be interested in spending an hour-and-a-half on a rower, or any other cardio machine, day-after-day, day in, day out? I'm fairly motivated and even I wouldn't do that. Ok, maybe many people could do that for the sake of losing excess fat, but as an on-going lifestyle change? Not many.

Besides: To illustrate my point: One small McDonald's meal, consisting of a Big Mac, small fry, and small Coke is 930 Cals. There went that ninety minutes, just like that.

One night my wife and I went to Arby's for dinner. (No, we don't do that often. Maybe two or three times a year, at the most.) I was working on fat loss so I ordered responsibly. Then I thought to check what the cost would be if I ordered what I'd really liked to have ordered. Had I done that, that one meal would've constituted my entire daily allowance in that one sitting.

Talk to any fitness coach and they'll tell you the same thing: If one wants to get the fat under control the very first step is getting ones diet straightened-out.

See I don't eat out (since I moved rurally, I've not had a takeaway in nearly 3 years) - I cook for myself and I eat a good diet - I do splurge occasionally, who doesn't - but it's not a consistent thing (I don't snack during the day and I eat evenly spaced meals and not late)... but I've still put weight on due to a lack of activity (and age).

In regards to the "bang there goes the exercise allowance", if you'd only had 1500 calories as your other 2 meals, one would be "allowed" 1000 in a sitting due to the average being 2500 roughly. I'm not disagreeing that diet and choices aren't important, but imo if you know a basic bit of nutrition it's not that hard to balance the books in the right way.

If some-one really is keen as a lifestyle change, two 30-45min sessions 4 days a week isn't that much really - the single session stuff I grant you isn't for every-one but *if* you can then it will make so much difference, not just on the weight but on mental side and sleep etc.

[Erik A]

im also on the weight loss journey as i have been for many years
i havent lost a lot during this round (12kg so far of about 35kg required loss) but have really noticed the change in body composition due to walking more and time on the rower.
my mid point ie the gut is hanging around while i have lost mass from my lower half ie legs and butt. my pants fit better etc
my gut is the last thing that loses mass and the first thing to gain it.
rowing has definately improved my cardio performance and after a session (im averaging 10km 4-5 nights a week when i kick myself into action) i feel real good. usual endorphin high
i find doing a challenge increases my motivation to get on the rower and this months C2 challenge and also another personal challenge of 10km a day for the entire month of Dec should keep me motivated for a while.
i eat usually 2 meals a day and when i drop the soft drink etc i lose weight slowly. but then i get all stressed out and my stress response is to eat or drink rubbish
and unfortunately my work and home life are super stressfull currently.

[ericMX73]

I've owned the C2 rower since 2012 and have used it generally only in the cold/rainy months, accruing about 200k ~ 500k per year. This year I made some huge changes (skipping breakfast and cut back on work hours) and the weight, BP and cholesterol are all dropping. I'm rowing about an hour a day now and have lost 30 lbs since May. And ya the exercise and diet go hand in hand for sure. After I put in all the effort on the ergometer I don't want to waste it by eating processed junk food.

Rowing for an hour can be extremely boring but I turn it into a sort of rowing meditation whereby I set the splits at 5 min and try to maintain a "cascade" with the pace times getting a tiny bit faster each time. This forces me to stay super focused for the hour. If my mind is allowed to wander, I start rowing slower and it really screws up the cascade. Staying focused on the rower first thing in the morning has been good practice for helping me stay focused through out the day generally. Staying focused on the task at hand reduces stressful thoughts.

[Kaussie]

I have the exact same problem. I can keep up the motivation for about 4 to 6 weeks but then something gets in the way and it all falls apart for a 6 weeks before I get going again. If you find a good solution let me know.

[iain]

Expecting "sense" from a bunch of ergers is a little optimistic. As a community most are at the extreme end of the spectrum erging for erging's sake, why else spend so long going back and forth over the same ground month after month! I could never understand the attraction of OTW due to the limited scope of the activity with the potential to mess up but (atleast outside a 1X) limited possibility of making a large impact. But I still fell in love with the sensation when the crew really came together. I am even more bemused on the erg. Most rowers hate them and even ergers have a love hate relationship with their metal mistresses. The secret is finding something that motivates you. For me I really like the statistics and watching the improvement. This can keep me motivated for 9 months or so before the gradual gains slow to the point that it is common to go a couple of weeks without a rewarding improvement.

On here it is almost blasphemy to suggest that anyone focused on losing weight should exceed the aerobic threshold. While it is true that you can burn more calories rowing slower, this requires you to keep rowing. I think this is the difficult part. As rowing is non-weight bearing, there is no reason why people can't exercise a bit harder. I have not seen a quantification of the extra calories burned after a hard session, but for 24 hours a need at least 1 jumper less so it is real and makes up for some of the lower calories burned during the session. It also puts on muscle quicker and gives you additional stats to motivate you (notably pace). I personally use a variation of the Pete Plan when deciding on my sessions. Where people usually go wrong is in taking Pete's suggestions of the pace you can end up achieving as the starting point. He is very clear that intervals should start at a pace that you could complete the whole session at without rests and that improvements are limited to pushing the final intervals. If done like that most people can manage 5+ months of improvements if they can stick to it. Similarly doing the long slow rows at UT1 (usually ending well into AT) makes them much more bearable and they have a significant impact in a few weeks rather than months.

Finally, I would add that regular use of a tape measure is often more motivating than the scales. If you have been sedentary, your body increases blood and so puts on weight in the first month of a more intense routine. Personally it is the loss of muscle mass and accumulation of fat that I want to reverse rather than bragging rights over my weight that makes me want to row. Yes it is "nice" to be back to weights I first left behind in my 20's, but that is much less important to me in my motivation that has allowed me to lose 10kg or more several times.

Finally, harder sessions are not possible after a meal. As a result, preparing to row and rowing gives me typically 3 hours food free. This regularly shifts my meals enough that I miss one as well as avoiding snacks, so tat is another bonus.

I hope that some of this is useful and apologise for the long post.

- Iain