opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

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tubameat
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opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by tubameat » January 10th, 2022, 11:21 am

Hi!

I am a fallen Crossfitter who needs to get back in shape after a couple years off! I'm 48.

Whats your opinion/experience in attaining general fitness/capacity/bodyfat %?

Of course there's diet - thats not what I'm asking about.

But what about use of the rower?

Do you prefer short, intense bouts on the machine (like we used to do in CF) or longer, slower, less intense sessions?

interested to hear different POV's!


Thanks,

Steve in MD

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Ombrax
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Ombrax » January 10th, 2022, 5:11 pm

tubameat wrote:
January 10th, 2022, 11:21 am
But what about use of the rower?

Do you prefer short, intense bouts on the machine (like we used to do in CF) or longer, slower, less intense sessions?
For all-around fitness the answer is almost certainly to use both.

Lately I've seen the figures 80% LSD (long, slow, distance) and 20% hard intervals mentioned here, but I don't know if they're based on tribal knowledge or actual research.

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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by jamesg » January 10th, 2022, 5:43 pm

But what about use of the rower? Do you prefer short, intense bouts on the machine (like we used to do in CF) or longer, slower, less intense sessions?
Rowing is very hard work, so you won't be able to do long pieces. A first target could be 2W/kg at rating 20.

See:
https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-ro ... ing-plans/
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos
08-1940, 183cm, 84kg. Last seen MHR 158 in 2k = 220 - 77% of age.
2021-2: stroke 6 W-min. ½k 1:55.5; 1k 4:09.2; 2k 8:42.2; 5k 23:15; 30' 6247; 10k 49:36.

Tsnor
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Tsnor » January 10th, 2022, 8:02 pm

Ombrax wrote:
January 10th, 2022, 5:11 pm
tubameat wrote:
January 10th, 2022, 11:21 am
But what about use of the rower?

Do you prefer short, intense bouts on the machine (like we used to do in CF) or longer, slower, less intense sessions?
For all-around fitness the answer is almost certainly to use both.

Lately I've seen the figures 80% LSD (long, slow, distance) and 20% hard intervals mentioned here, but I don't know if they're based on tribal knowledge or actual research.
Tons of research, but you need to know the key is 10 to 12 sessions a week to get to the "80% of session are long slow." My understanding after reading a lot is "Do 2 hard sessions a week then as much long/slow work as you can". Here is a good intro to where the 80% came from (short version it came from looking at what sucessful elite athletes actually do for training, then using that to design experiments that showed the coaches were correct) https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_seile ... e_athletes

If you prefer papers, this is the paper version. It is very readable, but information dense. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20861519/

If you'd like to see what rowing coaches are told here's the same information presented to rowing coaches. The first few mins are fluff, then it gets interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l1qUftZurw

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Ombrax
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Ombrax » January 10th, 2022, 8:18 pm

Thanks Tsnor, that's useful information.

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Carl Watts
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Carl Watts » January 11th, 2022, 12:00 am

You heading towards 50 so your requirements have changed.

Personally its now all about trying to maintain a level of fitness and keep that body fat off so you still feel and look 30.

More distance at lower heartrates and not going nuts all the time as now the recovery is longer and longer still if you overcook it.

Stay fit on the rower and maintain some flexibility and avoid injury is the key.

Try and clock up a couple of million meters a year on the Erg and the results are pretty good.
Carl Watts.
Age:54 Weight: 108kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

Tony Cook
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Tony Cook » January 11th, 2022, 4:45 am

What is ‘general fitness’? The answer will be different for everyone. The term ‘general fitness’ is too general for specific advice. People will answer based on their own perception of what ‘general fitness’ is, which may not be the same as the person asking the question.
I have found (in general) that most people without sporting backgrounds consider general fitness as a better stamina (aerobic base), while people with a sporting background think more along the lines of overall fitness - the 3/4 S’s was the thing, not seen so much in recent years.
Stamina, Strength, Speed and Suppleness.
So using the advice already given you can improve your stamina and speed, for erging, on the erg. To improve your strength and suppleness you need to do something different off the erg.
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7
2021 - 5k 17:26 - FM 2:53:37.0

tubameat
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by tubameat » January 11th, 2022, 8:35 am

That makes great sense Tony! Everybody has a different definition of fitness. And the erg is just one of many tools to achieve it.

Say what you will about CrossFit, but they do have a clear definition of fitness: "increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains"
which does make sense to me!

And dang, your PB's are very impressive - esp for your age! Are you a rowing specialist or just an all round beast?

Tony Cook
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Tony Cook » January 11th, 2022, 9:07 am

tubameat wrote:
January 11th, 2022, 8:35 am
That makes great sense Tony! Everybody has a different definition of fitness. And the erg is just one of many tools to achieve it.

Say what you will about CrossFit, but they do have a clear definition of fitness: "increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains"
which does make sense to me!

And dang, your PB's are very impressive - esp for your age! Are you a rowing specialist or just an all round beast?
Thanks Tub,
Lifelong rugby player who took up fixed seat rowing in late 40s as it was easier on the body. Then got into erging as rehab after a(nother) knee op in March 2020. With lockdown and an erg in the garage I got to row 6 days a week, and found the more I did the quicker I could do it! Being 6’5” with arms like an orangutan also helps.
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7
2021 - 5k 17:26 - FM 2:53:37.0

tubameat
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by tubameat » January 11th, 2022, 9:26 am

Tony Cook wrote:
January 11th, 2022, 9:07 am
tubameat wrote:
January 11th, 2022, 8:35 am
That makes great sense Tony! Everybody has a different definition of fitness. And the erg is just one of many tools to achieve it.

Say what you will about CrossFit, but they do have a clear definition of fitness: "increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains"
which does make sense to me!

And dang, your PB's are very impressive - esp for your age! Are you a rowing specialist or just an all round beast?
Thanks Tub,
Lifelong rugby player who took up fixed seat rowing in late 40s as it was easier on the body. Then got into erging as rehab after a(nother) knee op in March 2020. With lockdown and an erg in the garage I got to row 6 days a week, and found the more I did the quicker I could do it! Being 6’5” with arms like an orangutan also helps.
some of the TOUGHEST (and injuredest!) dudes i have ever met are former rugby players. I know one who can strict press 185lb with no warmup or anything. and he is of average size with a very broken body.

what do your row workouts consist of? 6x a week sounds like a lot with high boredom potential. do you get your WO's from a plan or do you just get on the machine and go at it and adjust intensity on the fly, according to how long you want to row?

Tony Cook
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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Tony Cook » January 11th, 2022, 11:27 am

tubameat wrote:
January 11th, 2022, 9:26 am
Tony Cook wrote:
January 11th, 2022, 9:07 am
tubameat wrote:
January 11th, 2022, 8:35 am
That makes great sense Tony! Everybody has a different definition of fitness. And the erg is just one of many tools to achieve it.

Say what you will about CrossFit, but they do have a clear definition of fitness: "increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains"
which does make sense to me!

And dang, your PB's are very impressive - esp for your age! Are you a rowing specialist or just an all round beast?
Thanks Tub,
Lifelong rugby player who took up fixed seat rowing in late 40s as it was easier on the body. Then got into erging as rehab after a(nother) knee op in March 2020. With lockdown and an erg in the garage I got to row 6 days a week, and found the more I did the quicker I could do it! Being 6’5” with arms like an orangutan also helps.
some of the TOUGHEST (and injuredest!) dudes i have ever met are former rugby players. I know one who can strict press 185lb with no warmup or anything. and he is of average size with a very broken body.

what do your row workouts consist of? 6x a week sounds like a lot with high boredom potential. do you get your WO's from a plan or do you just get on the machine and go at it and adjust intensity on the fly, according to how long you want to row?
First thing I did was several weeks of Dark Horse rowing follow along on YouTube. Then did Pete Plan for 9 weeks doing 4/5 sessions a week. Then did Concept Interactive plan on 6 days a week. 16 weeks for a 2k TT. 8 weeks of base building, so lots of UT sessions up to just over an hour. Second 8 weeks gets shorter and sharper with a couple of long rows.
After that I went to the Wolverine Plan 6 days a week. That’s one short interval, one longer interval and one long hard row with 3 L4 hour sessions a week.
I changed back to the Concept plan summer 2021 then to Wolverine again. Bit lost at the moment only feeling motivated to do hour steady states and Wolverine L4s, can’t get up for the hard short stuff.
I listen to audio books while I row to relieve boredom, and sometimes that makes me row for longer as I want to know what’s going to happen and so have to keep rowing!
Born 1963 6' 5" 100Kg
PBs from 2020 - 100m 15.7s - 1min 355m - 500m 1:28.4 - 1k 3:10.6 - 2k 6:31.6 - 5k 17:34.9 - 6k 20:57.5 - 30min @ 20SPM 8,336m - 10k 36:28.0 - 1 hour 16,094m - HM 1:18:51.7
2021 - 5k 17:26 - FM 2:53:37.0

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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Dangerscouse » January 11th, 2022, 11:46 am

I generally like a good variety of sessions, albeit I do avoid the short sharp stuff too easily, as it's just not suited to me.

I'm also a massive advocate of doing dynamic Pilates in addition to rowing as it's too one dimensional, and compressing to not do 'opening up' movements, and combined with core and general strength it's a great addition.
48 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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Re: opinion: which is best for all around fitness?

Post by Sakly » January 18th, 2022, 8:20 am

With strength training background - mostly bodyweight sessions, sometimes weighted, also heavy weights training of main moves like squat and deadlift - for me general fitness means to develop and preserve a wide range of conditioning. Means a good spread between endurance, strength endurance, maximum strength and mobility. For me this feels best in terms of transfer to real life loads.
For sure such kind of training will not lead to be the best in one of the categories, but you can play games above midfield in any case.
Jumped on a concept2 rower 6 days ago - hardly ever rowed before - my times are located in upper quarter when looking into ranking of my age. This is what good overall fitness means to me - you start something new and find a solid starting point without dying the next day, because you are so destroyed.
Male - '80 - 81kg - 177cm - Start rowErg Jan 2022
1': 331m
100m: 0:17.4
1k: 3:28.7
5k: 18:29.0
10k: 39:38.0
My log

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